Renew My Faith Please ...

[Jorge]

blah, blah, blah....

Welcome to my ignore list......

 

[roteague]

Welcome to my ignore list......

I couldn't have said it better myself; this wigwam guy is getting really old.

 

[DormanStudios]

Hey wiggy,
Can I ask one question...why in the hell are you a member of a forum called "Analog Photography Users Group" if you are such an obviously staunch supporter of digital?
You boldly and to some extent, gleefully proclaim films death. Tell me, will you be one of the many digitally brain washed masses dancing on it's grave?

 

[Jorge]

Hey wiggy,
Can I ask one question...why in the hell are you a member of a forum called "Analog Photography Users Group" if you are such an obviously staunch supporter of digital?
You boldly and to some extent, gleefully proclaim films death. Tell me, will you be one of the many digitally brain washed masses dancing on it's grave?

DO not feed the troll please, the zoo keepers seem to be off today.....

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Sal,

No its not 'the last' just my expression, we will continue to coat on glass, we do it in batches and its for scientific purposes :

Simon.

 

[Didzis]

Ilford does not make any C41 products. So what happens with C41 shold hardly concern Ilford.

Sorry, but they do make a C41 product, Ilford XP2 Super. Of course, it is not colour film (C41 does not necessarily mean colour), but they do make it.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Hey wiggy,
Can I ask one question...why in the hell are you a member of a forum called "Analog Photography Users Group" if you are such an obviously staunch supporter of digital?
You boldly and to some extent, gleefully proclaim films death. Tell me, will you be one of the many digitally brain washed masses dancing on it's grave?

You haven't read anything I've said. I love film, I use film, and I agree 100% that film is higher quality than digital. I also hate hurricanes, but when there is one coming, I like to know about it.

When someone asks if film is going to be around for very much longer, I prefer not to lie to them or to myself about it.

Bold I may be, but I am hardly gleeful about my prediction.

Wishing and positive thinking will not change the situation, and I prefer to deal with what is, rather than what I'd prefer.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Sorry, but they do make a C41 product, Ilford XP2 Super. Of course, it is not colour film (C41 does not necessarily mean colour), but they do make it.

Oops, you caught me. Very well, Ilford DOES make a C41 product. I still don't think it is fair or reasonable to say that film sales are rallying. For Ilford, that may well be true, as available producers go offline and shutter factories. It is called a 'bounce' and the same is observed when retail film processors shut their doors - those that remain gain the additional remaining business the closed shops had and it appears to be an upturn. But it is only temporary, and soon returns to the overall downward trend.

 

[Black Dog]

Well Ilford don't say it's only temporary...............But you are so right about truths and opinions. Have a nice day!BTW, maybe this post has grumbled on long enough?

 

[MikeM1977]

T
Again I repeat my prediction - the death of color print film in two years, B&W in a decade. I may be right, I may be wrong, but I'd prefer not to be misquoted.

Sorry, the market for disposable film cameras is absolutely huge. Even today. Especially in developing countries where the majority of the population does not own a computer. B&W will die sooner than C41 film. I doubt neither dies within the next 10 years.

Get out to a national park and take a look around at what cameras people use.

 

[Andy K]

BTW, maybe this post has grumbled on long enough?

Don't you believe it!

'Wiggy' here will drone on and repeat himself over and over and over and over... ad nauseam, as long as people reply. It's how he gets his rocks off.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Sorry, the market for disposable film cameras is absolutely huge. Even today. Especially in developing countries where the majority of the population does not own a computer. B&W will die sooner than C41 film. I doubt neither dies within the next 10 years.

Get out to a national park and take a look around at what cameras people use.

Heh. The other day here on Moloka'i a woman was asking in the local Fish n' Dive shop if they sold memory cards. Why the Fish n' Dive shop? Well, it was as likely a place as the grocery store, hardware store, auto parts shop, drug store, art gallery, or souvenir shop--those being most of the other retail businesses on the island. There's no problem buying 35mm film, underwater point & shoots, and disposable film cameras, though.

But to be fair, there are lots of "giclees" in the local gallery, and _National Geographic_ photographer, Dewitt Jones, who is a local resident, leads digital imaging workshops here.

 

[Travis Nunn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the death of B/W film predicted years ago when color film was introduced? I just don't believe film is going to disappear in the forseeable future.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Sorry, the market for disposable film cameras is absolutely huge. Even today. Especially in developing countries where the majority of the population does not own a computer. B&W will die sooner than C41 film. I doubt neither dies within the next 10 years.

Get out to a national park and take a look around at what cameras people use.

Mike, you don't have any factual basis for those statements. Film sales (all kinds of photographic film) are dropping at the retail level by 20% year on year and have been for the past three years at least. Those figures are based on annual reports by Fuji, Kodak, and CIPA, so that much is fact.

Yes, 'single-use' film cameras remain the stalwart that bolsters up film sales, but again, the decline is across the board. Single-use camera sales may well go up, even when the category 'film' is declining - when a potential customer cannot purchase an inexpensive camera and is faced with buying a fairly expensive digicam or a single-use film camera, they may go for the cheaper option - there is not much on offer in between those two price points in many retail locations at the moment. That's my opinion, but I base it on what is reported - this information is available online for free, you just have to look for it.

Kodak recently sacked nearly their entire far-east division management and hired new ones. The reason that they gave was pretty straight-forward; they seriously misjudged the 'technology jumping' that the Chinese would engage in - millions are going straight from 'no camera' to 'digital camera' and are not buying film cameras at all. This is from news reports and interviews, I can try to locate it again and quote it here if you wish.

This phenomena of 'technology jumping' is not confined to digital cameras. In many emerging countries, telephone use has gone from 'no phone at all' to 'wireless phone' with no traditional landline. In some countries, the wait to get a traditional phone line is years long - but they can buy a wireless phone and have it that day.

The reason I predict color film will fail sooner than B&W is two-fold:

1) Because color is largely prejudiced towards commercial development, as the one-hour shops close down, many consumers will refuse to buy film or film cameras anymore. Color photographic still film sales are largely consumer-driven. B&W photographic still film sales are largely enthusiast and professional photographer driven, and those in the latter market are more resistant to change.

2) There are more B&W film producers than there are color film producers, and they produce on a smaller scale. They can simply afford to keep at it longer, remaining somewhat profitable in a shrinking niche market.

As to going out to national parks, I do so all the time. I live in the sticks, I'm all covered in nature out here. All I see people using are digital cameras. I'm generally the lone film user, when I bring a film camera, which I usually do.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Heh. The other day here on Moloka'i a woman was asking in the local Fish n' Dive shop if they sold memory cards. Why the Fish n' Dive shop? Well, it was as likely a place as the grocery store, hardware store, auto parts shop, drug store, art gallery, or souvenir shop--those being most of the other retail businesses on the island. There's no problem buying 35mm film, underwater point & shoots, and disposable film cameras, though.

But to be fair, there are lots of "giclees" in the local gallery, and _National Geographic_ photographer, Dewitt Jones, who is a local resident, leads digital imaging workshops here.

Here in Wilson, North Carolina, the local Walgreens has cleared several shelves that used to hold film, and they now sell various kinds of memory cards in that space. Our town is 40,000 people - hardly the hub of civilization. If it has hit here...

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Here in Wilson, North Carolina, the local Walgreens has cleared several shelves that used to hold film, and they now sell various kinds of memory cards in that space. Our town is 40,000 people - hardly the hub of civilization. If it has hit here...

"Walgreens"? I bet you even have stoplights.

The population of Moloka'i is about 8000. You can't buy a computer, an adjustable camera, a new car, or large appliances here, and the whole island might be running low on milk between barge deliveries. Other than the Chevron station, Ace Hardware, Napa Auto Parts, a resort hotel owned by Sheraton, and some international development companies that have land holdings, there is no national or franchise business on the island. They tried to establish a KFC once, but I don't think it lasted the year. And there really are no stoplights anywhere on the island.

 

[Ed Sukach]

I hear that my local Art Supply store has wiped out its supply of charcoals. They say that all the market surveys indicate CONCLUSIVELY that, with these NEW!! Pastels (with COLOR), there will be no more demand for monochrome media. SALES (!!! - nothing more important, - is there?) of charcoals are dropping steadily.

I guess I'll have to start ricking (that the right term?) my own.

At this rate there will not be a grapevine left standing.

Does anyone realize that there are those still working with their own self-made tempura?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Does anyone realize that there are those still working with their own self-made tempura?

Tempura is in healthy supply here at the local eateries on Moloka'i, favoring Asian cuisine, and there are two places I think that sell tempera, if you don't want to make your own.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

I hear that my local Art Supply store has wiped out its supply of charcoals. They say that all the market surveys indicate CONCLUSIVELY that, with these NEW!! Pastels (with COLOR), there will be no more demand for monochrome media. SALES (!!! - nothing more important, - is there?) of charcoals are dropping steadily.

I didn't say 'market surveys'. I said sales reports. As to whether or not anything is more important than sales, you'd have to ask that to the shareholders. I'd suggest that profits are the most important thing to them, and sales drive profits in the sense that if you haven't any sales, you probably haven't any profits. Companies without profits tend to absent themselves from the marketplace.

 

[copake_ham]

I have no idea what Bill err...Wiggy here just said - he populates my entire Ignore list. But as they say in the zoos - "Please Don't Feed the Trolls"!

BTW, he's been whining about Wilson, N.C. and Walgreens for a long, long time on the Rangefinder Forum site. Same old, same old.

Go away Bill, you're not wanted here - we do film - the stuff you declared dead. So hanging around here is kind of like stalking a morgue! Kind of sicko actually.

 

[dolande]

I hate myself for reading this thread for the past 3 weeks.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I applaud Wiggy for knowing more about the inside activities of the photo industry than Simon Galley or just about everyone else here.

I could understand his knowing more than me, I've retired, but Simon? I would have to say, with a smile on my face....

What Simon says!

PE

 

[roteague]

I said sales reports. As to whether or not anything is more important than sales, you'd have to ask that to the shareholders.

I can show you a photo store here on Oahu that only sells film, paper and chemicals. Her business is booming.

 

[Dinesh]

I can show you a photo store here on Oahu that only sells film, paper and chemicals. Her business is booming.

I don't believe it Robert. In fact if you want to prove it, buy me a ticket to Oahu, put me up in a fancy hotel, take me out shooting and then on the last day show me her store

 

[roteague]

I don't believe it Robert. In fact if you want to prove it, buy me a ticket to Oahu, put me up in a fancy hotel, take me out shooting and then on the last day show me her store

Oh, I would take you there on the first day ... alas, my airfare fund has been spent for the year - tickets to Australia you know.