Recreating a Real Photo Postcard - a diary

Don_ih

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I also gather even high end photographers back in the day were occasionally making post cards.

You'd have to think making postcards would be something to do during downtime - and that postcards themselves sold fairly well. People wrote more short notes to people then so were more likely to buy postcards. It was also a way someone could get a photo of a tourist attraction or just the town they were visiting.
 

mshchem

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Remember Kodabromide is a fast enlarging paper. The old cards were printed on slow contact papers like Azo and Kruxo.
 

MattKing

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Remember Kodabromide is a fast enlarging paper. The old cards were printed on slow contact papers like Azo and Kruxo.

And good old Velox.
 
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bud007

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Here's a scan of successful print for one of my goals - negative shot in Kodak 3A and contact printed on modern 4x6 double weight paper:




Since my negative is only 3.25" tall, when I printed I masked it to 3" tall, so 1/2" white boarder all the way around. I put the gray background behind the scan of the 4x6 scan to better represent what it looks like in person.

I'm pretty happy with the vintage feel of the actual image, but there's something about the white boarder that jars me into a more modern feel. So thinking maybe a black background/reverse masking might feel better. As actually printing this would be a bit complicated, I simply mocked one up in photoshop to see if I felt like it was worth messing with. Here's that mockup:




I do like the black border quite a bit better, so I think I'll give it a go for real. It'll look even better if I can figure out a way of incorporating the live edge of the image.

One of the complications I'm having to deal with is that the image isn't very "square" on the negative - e.g. the straight edge of the image isn't parallel of the straight edge of the film. This is due to some combination of me not cutting the film exactly straight and the film not sitting precisely squire in the camera. It's manageable, but just makes putting together the contact printing "sandwich" more of a challenge.
 
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bud007

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Here's the final 4x6 on Ilford Portfolio Pearl. This shows the live edge on the negative all the way 'round and I think helps with the retro impression. I'm happy with the look and the couple people I showed it to mentioned "it looks old".



Interestingly, the Ilford 4x6 paper is intended to be used as a postcard, and even includes a little card showing you how to mark up the back to add the address lines, etc. However... when I tried running this through my inkjet to put a retro postcard back on it... the ink wouldn't penetrate the paper (it just sat on top, so smeared easily). I let one set out overnight (unsmeared), and the next day it had "settled" and blurred badly. So I'm gonna have to experiment with some other inks, or maybe a rubber stamp to see how I'm gonna be able to print anything on the back of this. Or switch to a fiber 4x6 paper.
 

BrianShaw

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Great progress!

A comment on borders… the old RPPC’s that I’ve encountered are either borderless or have thin white borders. Never seen black borders. Another interesting option that’s occasionally seen are oval photos on white background.

Regarding image “squareness”, your being much too hard on yourself. It’s a postcard, not a fine print that an art critic is going to scrutinize. Your image looks great!

The only change I’d be tempted to make is the label - replacing the type font with an old-tymey hand scripted title. Possibly moved to the bottom of the frame.

(I like the white border better, though, from both a postal card look and the impact the border has on the feel of the image.)
 
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Don_ih

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I think the font is fine but should maybe be a bit smaller and lower in the image. Otherwise, I agree with Brian - a white border looks more normal than a black one
 

Bill Burk

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That looks great! If you do switch to fiber based, you have to be diligent in the fix and wash procedure.

I’ve experienced it myself. You get excited and make a modest run and try to batch a few in the process. Sometimes the fix exhausts and you don’t notice or they wash isn’t efficient or long enough and you get yellowish stain and gray or black marks. Might get white fingerprints too if you pick a fresh card with wet hands dripping with fix.

Even some of Hammond’s Studios vintage RPPC were affected with processing defects. I knew of him when I worked in Porterville. He was my boss Marty Sanders’ best friend’s dad. Mental block right now if his name was Alan Hammond or his son was Alan. Maybe both. Met the younger Hammond once and took a photo of him shoeing a Percheron. Only met the photographer in his studio once after moving away. Still working for the same company I took some colleagues on a day trip to the Porterville plant. We went sightseeing and made a stop looking for photo supplies. I picked up an old Kodak self timer (new old stock) and picked several postcards from his rack for something like fifty cents each. Some of them had those defects I mentioned.
 
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bud007

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Yeah, good catch on the type being too big. I'm using type vs handwritten because, for better or worse, the 1908 card I chose to emulate had type (creek bridge card partially shown below). If I scale everything to compare type sizes (image below).... yeah, the font size I used was maybe twice as tall as it should be. I also should increase the density a bit too make it whiter (vs. the gray it's coming through). I still would like to find some old leaded typeset letters and try that, just for grins.



As a further test for using the RC paper, I took a rubber stamp my wife had (Happy Birthday!) and a "Stayson" black ink and stamped the back - that worked fine - no smear, even if I wet my finger and rubbed it. So I think I'll have a 4x6 rubber stamp made up with the postcard graphic from my 1908 example and just stamp that on the back of my 4x6 cards.
 
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bud007

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I keep trying to convince myself that imperfections in what I'm doing actually help make it more authentic
 

MattKing

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bud007

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I attempted a label and it did print fine. Technically that made the double weight photo paper too thick for a postcard, but that could be gotten around by simply using a thinner photo paper. The bigger issue for me was how it felt in the hand. Even though I trimmed the edges with a razor, it was still pretty obvious that the edges were a bit goofy.

I also tried a more standard photo mount of 3M repositionable adhesive and a simple plain paper backing. The edges were actually worse on that.

I ordered my 4x6 rubber stamp, so we'll see how that works, but I have high hopes. I had to tweak the layout of the graphics, since, of course, the "real photo postcard" wasn't 4x6. I would have liked to have figure out how to just have one stamp that I could use either for 3.5 x 5.5 non-mailed "more authentic" reproductions and also the mailable 4x6, but I just felt it'd be too much of a comprimise, looks wise.

Here's what I used for a 4x6 layout... a clone of the card I'm using as a model:



Kinda rolling the dice on how this will reproduce as a rubber stamp (graphics are kinda small/detailed).
 

MattKing

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Are you sure about your sizing information?
From the USPS website:
"to qualify for mailing at the First-Class Mail postcard price, it must be:

Rectangular - At least 3-1/2 inches high x 5 inches long x 0.007 inch thick
No more than 4-1/4 inches high x 6 inches long x 0.016 inches thick"


And

"TIPS
0.007 inches? How do I measure that? As a guide, an index card is thick enough. If in doubt, contact a Mailpiece Design Analyst (MDA) at the Post Office near you. MDAs have tools for precisely measuring thickness and can tell you if your mailpiece is thick enough."
 
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bud007

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umm... wow... I swear I looked this up, but I think you're correct... so a vintage card can be mailed.
 

MattKing

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umm... wow... I swear I looked this up, but I think you're correct... so a vintage card can be mailed.

And I'm pretty confident that if you print on to 4"x6" RC paper, add an adhesive label, and then trim the combination to the 3.5"x5" size, it will meet the thickness requirements and look good.
 

MattKing

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By the way, the reason that this Canadian is familiar with the USA postcard requirements is that I live very near the US-Canada border, and when I participated (until recently) in the Photrio postcard exchange, I used to mail my US and International destination cards from the USA, to take advantage of the favourable postage rate.
 
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bud007

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I think I figured out where I got confused. I went into this project thinking the postcard was the same size as the negative - (the negative being 3.25" x 5.5")... so assumed that was too small to mail, not realizing the actual postcard is bigger than the negative by half inch (3.5" tall, so ok to mail). If I have to go bigger to be legally mailing something, i figured I might as well go to 4x6, since that's a paper I can easily purchase and not have to trim.

When I went to print my neg, I discovered the discrepancy, but missed the original assumption about having to go bigger to mail it.

I never did figure out how these 3.5" tall vintage postcards have no border... other than a theory that they might be from 5x7 negatives out of view cameras.

Oh well, I don't mind having a 4x6 option for this, but might not have gone down that path if I'd have understood better the negative vs. postcard size dynamics.
 

MattKing

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Here is my "drying station" for a Postcard exchange back in ~2013. Each one an enlargement, of course:
 

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mshchem

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A friend of mine used a small letter press to print the backs of postcards. Something like this, a zinc "die cut" mounted on a wooden block to type height. Worked pretty slick. All the old Kodak cards were 3.5 x5.5 inches (MOL), 8 cards from 11x14.
No modern double weight fiber paper is quite as thick as the old cards, but pretty darn close.
FUN!
 

Don_ih

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I never did figure out how these 3.5" tall vintage postcards have no border... other than a theory that they might be from 5x7 negatives out of view cameras.

That is most likely what it was. Someone tasked with taking photos for postcard reproduction would probably want to get the negative as good as possible. The way to do that is on ground glass. Also, professional photographers around 1900 or so would have had many uses for 5x7 cameras (think of all those class photos) and not much use for a roll-film postcard camera. Also, using a 5x7 allows you to adjust things after the photo is taken, since the postcard is a significant crop of that negative.
 
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bud007

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Well, the rubber stamp idea was a mixed bag. On the positive side, the look and font reproduction all worked well. However, in use the stamp was very unwieldy - really hard to get a consistent imprint due to the size and shape. I'm thinking about breaking up the single stamp into a couple of smaller flat stamps that can be applied separately. Here's the best of my tests:

 

koraks

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When using the stamp, try placing the postcard on a somewhat spongy/flexible surface (high density foam etc.). This will make it easier to get good contact between the stamp and the paper.
 

Don_ih

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Your stamp should be mounted on a block - either a flat block or a curved one. In the latter case, you rotate the stamp onto the paper - which has to be on a very hard, flat surface. It's easier to get a consistent result with a curved block.
 
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