Recommendations for breaking into medium format

[Deleted member 88956]

why are 6x7 negatives difficult to keep in negative sleeves? Are you using the larger sheets for 6x7?

I don't get this either, there are sleeves made for 6x7, nothing special storing them.

 

[MattKing]

why are 6x7 negatives difficult to keep in negative sleeves? Are you using the larger sheets for 6x7?

I don't get this either, there are sleeves made for 6x7, nothing special storing them.

The special larger sheets require special larger binders, which don't fit correctly on many bookshelves, and don't store well together with regular letter sized binders.
I keep trying to convince the manufacturers that 6x8 is the perfect format, but so few actually listen

 

[Deleted member 88956]

The special larger sheets require special larger binders, which don't fit correctly on many bookshelves, and don't store well together with regular letter sized binders.
I keep trying to convince the manufacturers that 6x8 is the perfect format, but so few actually listen

True, but if one invests in 6x7 camera system, this is just a need to fulfill as well (unless someone wants get around it somehow). As for shelves, we're good here, this side of the water puddle, on shelf depth

 

[Sirius Glass]

The special larger sheets require special larger binders, which don't fit correctly on many bookshelves, and don't store well together with regular letter sized binders.
I keep trying to convince the manufacturers that 6x8 is the perfect format, but so few actually listen

Come on Matt we all know that Hasselblad advertised for years that "Square is the perfect format." Even Rollei agreed.

 

[Mike Lopez]

I don't get this either, there are sleeves made for 6x7, nothing special storing them.

I suspect the reference is to the fact that it’s very common to find sleeves that will hold (8) 6x7 negatives. Using those sleeves means breaking a roll out between more than one page.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I suspect the reference is to the fact that it’s very common to find sleeves that will hold (8) 6x7 negatives. Using those sleeves means breaking a roll out between more than one page.

THIS is what one needs

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Yeah, there was a nice graphic illustration above about why this isn't true (and I know you weren't saying it was, I just didn't want to overquote). Someone said something about "adjacent formats" -- and 35 mm and 645 are not that.

When there was film for every need, there was a whole roll format in between 120 and "miniature" 35 mm -- "small format" aka 127. The original 127 frame was 4x6(+) cm on 46 mm wide film, later 4x4 square was added and some cameras were made to use half the "full frame" to give 4x3 (which was pretty close to 828, and still bigger than the 24x36 frame of 35mm). So it used to be that if you wanted bigger film than 35 mm, you could get a 127 TLR (there are some really good ones) and have nearly double the image area, or a full frame (8 on a roll) and get nearly triple, barely smaller than 6x4.5, but in a camera that was literally a "Vest Pocket" fit. These cameras are all over, but the film is not -- try to buy 127 and you get two or three choices, at least one of them hand rolled. If I'm going to put up with that, and before I'll pay the prices, I'll cut down 120 and spool it myself (and get half again as many exposures, up to 24 in a half frame camera).

If you're new to film that doesn't come in a cassette, however, I'd recommend you stick with 120. I've got a Daiichi Zenobia, a scale focus 6x4.5 that fits in a pocket, 6x6 and 6x9 folders as well (one of my favorites is a Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera, from the late 1920s, a 620 TLR (same film, different spool, easily rerolled or in some cameras you can feed from a 120 roll with the spool flanges trimmed). But if it came down to only being able to keep one camera, I'd have to think long and hard between my Speed Graphic (an Anniversary model with conversion Graflok back and Kalart rangefinder, working focal plane shutter, but a little ugly cosmetically) and my RB67. The Speed is lighter, but the RB is quicker and easier to operate, quicker to change lenses (and doesn't require 15-30 minutes to recalibrate the RF, because SLR), and doesn't require a darkroom if I run out of loaded film holders.

For a beginner to medium format, however, something like a Zenobia or Mamiya Six (folder) would be the best choices. Compact enough to fit a coat pocket (even a suit coat), very capable lens, the Mamiya (at least the version I have, there are several) has dual format, 6x6 and 6x4.5 (with captive masks, so they won't have vanished in the sixty-plus years since the camera was made), plus coupled rangefinder, and focuses by moving the film plane rather than the lens or one element of the lens (as many folders do). Keep one folder, that Mamiya Six would win (but I'd be sorry to see the Rollfilmkamera go).

I will marry your thoughts on the Mamiya6. Is it fantastic travel camera and has beautiful optics.

 

[mmerig]

why are 6x7 negatives difficult to keep in negative sleeves? Are you using the larger sheets for 6x7?

I am aware of the over-sized sheets for 6 by 7. What I meant by "awkward" (not as some have attributed to me, "difficult", but that works too) is the larger-sized binders needed. They are harder to find in stationary stores, and will stick-out on normal sized shelves. Others have mentioned this already (thanks to them), but figured I would answer the question addressed to me.

The 6 by 9 is very close to the format ratio for 135, so those coming from that experience could adapt more easily to 6 by 9. So much depends on the use.

When cropping from 6 by 7 to a 6 by 9 ratio, 6 cm^2 is lost, and the remaining area is 36 cm^2. When cropping from a 6 by 9 to 6 by 7, ratio 12 cm^2 is lost, and the remaining area is 42 cm^2. On a per-roll basis, the respective losses are 60 and 96. So there is a trade-off on negative size and economy.

The rations are estimates. For 6 by 9 , the long-side is usually shy of 9. The folders tend to have longer negatives (truer 6 by 9).

The practical differences are pretty small, and the entire negative is not always used anyway, for either format

 

[Dan Daniel]

I will marry your thoughts on the Mamiya6. Is it fantastic travel camera and has beautiful optics.

[Side question- did you mean 'mirror' his thoughts? Curious; 'marry' might be an idiom that I do not know, maybe British- to take a thought to heart, to make it one's own? Not being critical! I find the ways non-native speakers use words to be wonderful and gives me new angles and insights on language.]

 

[rulnacco]

THIS is what one needs

And if you are contact proofing your 6x7 black and white negatives, this is what one needs.

And a good paper cutter to trim them down to the same size as the negative page. You know, this is another reason why it would be *amazing* if they brought back 220 film: you could put 12 negatives into a 6x7 page, and the other 8 into a regular 6x6 page. Then you could proof the 6x7 page on the larger paper, and the 6x6 page on 8x10 paper. It would save a bit of money and hassle, at least for me. I suppose I could always shoot two rolls of 120, and then mix the rolls together in the negative pages to do the same thing, but...I like 220 film.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

THIS is what one needs

That's what I use and use to have them cut 3+3+2+2 for a total of 10 6x7s. The problem now is that with a V850 scanner, its film holder only holds 2 shots. If you try to squeeze the three-shot strip, it crunches at one end because it;s too long. So you have to cut into 1's and 2's. My old V600 takes the strips of 3. What was Epson thinking with the V850 holders?

 

[rulnacco]

That's what I use and use to have them cut 3+3+2+2 for a total of 10 6x7s. The problem now is that with a V850 scanner, its film holder only holds 2 shots. If you try to squeeze the three-shot strip, it crunches at one end because it;s too long. So you have to cut into 1's and 2's. My old V600 takes the strips of 3. What was Epson thinking with the V850 holders?

Have you tried the holders from betterscanning.com? They used to work fine with strips of three 6x7s on my V750. (Unfortunately, I had to sell my whole setup when I moved back from London.) They're not cheap, but unless Epson has significantly improved their MF holders while making them less useful to you, they're a far better product.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Have you tried the holders from betterscanning.com? They used to work fine with strips of three 6x7s on my V750. (Unfortunately, I had to sell my whole setup when I moved back from London.) They're not cheap, but unless Epson has significantly improved their MF holders while making them less useful to you, they're a far better product.

All the V850 holders are better from the standpoint of holding the film flat. The holders have a glass that the film pushes against. I do have a Betterscanning holder for my 6x7's but only tried it with my older V600. Would the 6x7 Betterscanner work on the V850?

 

[Deleted member 88956]

All the V850 holders are better from the standpoint of holding the film flat. The holders have a glass that the film pushes against. I do have a Betterscanning holder for my 6x7's but only tried it with my older V600. Would the 6x7 Betterscanner work on the V850?

Betterscanning

 

[Donald Qualls]

My old V600 takes the strips of 3. What was Epson thinking with the V850 holders?

Unless I'm pretty confused, the negative carriers from a V600 will fit a V850. I've got a set I bought and trimmed the register tabs off of (and removed the focus adjustment feet) to use on a 4870, and I've been seriously considering putting them back in service on my V850 because the short/fewer negative windows bug me and the ANR glass collects dust -- and I hate having to use ICE to heal dust (not to mention ICE doesn't work for B&W unless you shoot XP2 and not then if you bleach bypass).

 

[grat]

Anyone know if betterscanning is responding to orders again? I know they were unavailable for most of 2020.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Anyone know if betterscanning is responding to orders again? I know they were unavailable for most of 2020.

website is running and nothing to indicate they are not

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Unless I'm pretty confused, the negative carriers from a V600 will fit a V850. I've got a set I bought and trimmed the register tabs off of (and removed the focus adjustment feet) to use on a 4870, and I've been seriously considering putting them back in service on my V850 because the short/fewer negative windows bug me and the ANR glass collects dust -- and I hate having to use ICE to heal dust (not to mention ICE doesn't work for B&W unless you shoot XP2 and not then if you bleach bypass).

I don't believe they will without modification, but you can still find new holders for V700, often for cheap. When I got V800 I went for a full set of V700 frames for same reasons. But am looking into betterscanning.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Going back to the start, if someone is trying to "break in" anyway, just bring a crowbar and help yourself to all you can carry. Might as well steal one of everything, and try em all out. Would be easier than trying to sort out six hundred and four conflicting opinions, and why one dare not ever shoot a camera unless they invest in binders and bookshelves first.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Going back to the start, if someone is trying to "break in" anyway, just bring a crowbar and help yourself to all you can carry. Might as well steal one of everything, and try em all out. Would be easier than trying to sort out six hundred and four conflicting opinions, and why one dare not ever shoot a camera unless they invest in binders and bookshelves first.

Nah, since the OP will just end up with the best at the end, he should just start with a Hasselblad and slowly add to his array of lenses. That way he will not have to buying and selling cameras working his way up. Then when he get to the point that he is contemplating a FlexBody or an ArcBody, he will see the light and realize for movement he should move from MF to LF and buy at 4"x5" view camera or a nice wooden 8"x10" view camera.

 

[Arthurwg]

SG got it right. Stop beatting around the bush and go with the best: Hasselblad.

 

[Sirius Glass]

SG got it right. Stop betting around the bush and go with the best: Hasselblad.

Just like the Packard motor car advertisement said, "Ask the man that owns one."

 

[Arthurwg]

My father only drove Packards.

 

[John Phive]

Even with my past history as a student then a teacher, I never had a chance to get into medium format photography till now. But current prices for medium format cameras would out of my reach. So instead of spending $600.00 or more, I've selected a Holga 120N camera. I wasn't expecting to see any major results when testing the camera. In fact I was about ready to throw in the towel and throw out the camera all with 11 rolls of exposed film when my wife asked that I take another look and I'm glad I did. Several of these images turned out better than I expected. testing the toy camera has allowed me to set my sights on that future upgrade. So if you're unsure as to if the Medium format is right for you. get one of these holgas and a couple differant 120 rolls of film.

 

[Don_ih]

Forget all that - this is the best: