Recommendations for breaking into medium format

[grat]

Oy! Class warfare on Photrio?

Why is "recognizing a difference" considered "warfare" in modern society?

 

[Donald Qualls]

Why is "recognizing a difference" considered "warfare" in modern society?

Probably because it's the current socially acceptable way of making yourself better than someone else. You're not better because of the color of you skin, your intelligence of education level, who your ancestors were -- but because you caught someone else noticing those things (whether they called one better than the other or not).

 

[Arthurwg]

Why is "recognizing a difference" considered "warfare" in modern society?

More about who has what and what it costs. But I was joking. Anyway, photography is cheaper than yachting.

 

[markbau]

Hi John. I only shot weddings myself for close friends or family, or for collectors of my prints who demanded work I personally shot, printed, and framed. In such cases, I always charged per print rather than project. A whole different ballgame. But happily given the fact most of these events were outdoors, or basically environmental portraiture, the P67 and a 165/2.8 lens were an ideal combination, and the noise not an issue outside. If they wanted something indoors too, I switched to the Nikon and high-speed color film, since I immensely disliked using flash. And there were some really lovely high-speed color films back then like Agfachrome 1000. I miss that kind of product. I actually printed everything on Cibachrome - yeah, I know... portrait heresy... but I printed it really well, so they paid well. But for the timid, I could shoot color neg film and RA4 print it instead. And others wanted classic black and white work. A token rite of passage, and a little extra income, that's all. But once the 8x10 was involved... that's a whole different story.

I know this is getting OT but I love talking about Cibachromes.When I first started using it I was shooting a lot of fairly high contrast scenes on K64, a total nightmare and yes, I went through the whole contrast reduction palaver. I was so frustrated I changed to a Fuji slide film (not sure of its code/name) and also avoided high contrast scenes and they were a lot easier to print. With the right slide Ciba's were a dream but with the wrong slide, a nightmare. I once printed for a photographer that really knew how to shoot for Ciba's (all studio stuff) and the prints I managed were pretty good if I do say so myself. I'm told that they have very good longevity. BTW, does anyone know what sort of colour prints Mapplethorpe had made? I saw some of his colour work once and was amazed.

 

[abruzzi]

More about who has what and what it costs. But I was joking. Anyway, photography is cheaper than yachting.

Definitely not. I paid $1k for my sailboat, and have no ongoing expenses (it lives in my front yard, so I don't need to pay docking.) I think I've spent haf that much for film just to feed the *!^$*%^ 8x10 in the last year.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Definition of a sailboat: a hole in the water you throw money into.

 

[Arthurwg]

Definitely not. I paid $1k for my sailboat, and have no ongoing expenses (it lives in my front yard, so I don't need to pay docking.) I think I've spent haf that much for film just to feed the *!^$*%^ 8x10 in the last year.

Are you sure it's a yacht? And BTW, where do you sail it? Not much water in NM.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Definition of a sailboat: a hole in the water you throw money into.

Spend money for cameras and film. That floats my boat.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Spend money for cameras and film. That floats my boat.

Yep. The only boat I'm ever likely to own is one I can build for the price of a couple boxes of 4x5 film with materials from the home improvement store.

 

[abruzzi]

Are you sure it's a yacht? And BTW, where do you sail it? Not much water in NM.

we actually have less surface water than any other state in the US, but Elephant Butte Reservoir is usually where I go with it since its nearby. There are also some northern reservoirs that are better for summer sailing--Heron Lake and Navajo lake. But they're a significant drive.

Is it a yacht? I don't know but I can sleep in it. Its like a boat RV inside--25ft long.

 

[Arthurwg]

I've thought about Heron Lake, but so far no boat.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I've thought about Heron Lake, but so far no boat.

Are there any lakes in New Mexico?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Markbau - Mapplethorpe, as I understand, farmed out all his printing, and it involved various print media from excellent practitioners, whether silver or platinum. Some of his work I refuse to look at. But if you're thinking about his color flower still life work, they weren't Cibas to my recollection, and had almost a color gravure look, at least the ones I've seen. 99.99% of my own Ciba printing was from large format sheet film originals; but I did think of the combination of Kodachrome 25 and Ciba as a marriage made in heaven; Koda 64 not so much, though at least it was briefly available in 120 roll film size too.

As far as other off-topic subjects go - you can't even rent a dock space for a thousand bucks a month here. Maybe $7000 a month for a modest space. Every shipworks and yacht manufacturer in the area was a customer of mine, especially for fabrication and maintenance equipment as well as sealants and hardware etc - including the Anerica's Cup teams and the largest most expensive yachts in the world, one, largely carbon fiber, costing over a billion dollars to make, and slightly lesser wooden ones so big that they had a full-sized basketball court on deck. People who helped build them were and still are personal friends of mine. There are certain things the mega-rich techie types seem to need to do in life, and spend money on : first, driving competition out of business, second, acquiring an immense yacht, then a bigger one, and then another still bigger; and next, owning their own island, and finally, having enough money left over to support a whole fleet of lawyers defending them from women's lawsuits. Too much money can get you in trouble. Be happy with an inflatable rubber raft.

 

[Pieter12]

There are certain things the mega-rich techie types seem to need to do in life

You forgot dodging taxes.

 

[Pieter12]

I see that someone's overly salty for not managing to learn how to use a computer before the "six feet under" time. Being afraid of pixels and blaming all the world's problems on the tech millionaires are common symptoms, just talk to your doctor. You have fallen into this miserable parallel reality, where your "computer security" is preventing you from reading Wikipedia, is because at some point in your life you've decided that reading, learning and listening is for young people, DREW.

This is why old people are often compared to children, or even toddlers.

Wikipedia can be a bunch of manipulated half-truths, as well as a good source of information. In today's unregulated internet world, most things you read online should be taken with a grain of salt. Plus, you're right. It's not just the mega-rich techies. It's also the mega-rich non-techies that are ruining the world.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Oh they certainly do pay their taxes in a certain elliptical manner! Somebody has to buy off the politicians in order to get them to write the tax loopholes a specific way. Nothing comes free. But i've hobnobbed enough with certain of the mega-rich business-wise, incidentally, to recognize they're not all the same, but often do have eccentricities. One of them, who made money too fast to make it worth his time to even pick up a hundred dollar bill, haggled six hours with me over the price of a cheapo doorknob, trying to get it down form $16 to $8 - haggling is a game to them. Didn't matter to me, because over all, he spent millions of dollars at the company. Then later that week, he stiffed one of his key remodelers out of six months of pay, then turned around and gave his janitor a $50,000 Christmas bonus check. He dressed in moth-eaten old sweaters he bought at Goodwill. Ya never know. I have no idea how many billions of dollars he was worth when he finally retired, and then made even way more selling his mega-sized pharmaceutical corporation.

Meanwhile, his remodeler wanted all the fancy toys he could collect despite being overworked and having already narrowly survived two heart attacks. So he delayed paying his own taxes, figuring he'd die before they got him, which turned out to be true. He had his own yacht, and a big warehouse space full of top-end shop equipment and hand tools, plus almost totally unused top-end Leica and Hassie gear. The State seized it all before the IRS could get ahold of it, since he owed both before he died. I coulda had the camera gear dirt cheap because the auction wasn't widely known, but just didn't need any more superfluous gear. I needed to conserve my optional finances for 8X10 film instead.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The rich can't take their money with them when they die anymore than we can take our photos. Everything is left for relatives, strangers, and the government to do as they will do with it. It all gets recirculated eventually at some point to others, rich and poor, who will leave it too because they can't take it with them either.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

You've got it backwards. They have created the world you live in. The decline that you're (correctly) observing is caused by the side-effect which I do not have a name nor cure for.

Here it is: the financial upside and prestige that comes with accomplishments of succeeding as a hard+smart worker in the private sector has gotten so high, that A or even B-level talent doesn't go into public service anymore. Basically, poor governance. It's not even about the corruption, the issue is that the smart kids never define policy anymore.

I have repeatedly asked well-off, accomplished, smart and passionate individuals on why they spend countless millions on charities instead of running for an office. The response is that they don't want to be surrounded/work with C-level talent. A CEO of a public company is a far better job than being the president because you're surrounded by a top executive team, while the president is not. And it propagates down from there: an average VP does not see congressmen as peers. I am not even talking about city or state level morons, most wouldn't pass an entry level job interview at Google.

Blaming the rich is the dumbest and the most dangerous thing one can do. The rich is your hope. The rich is your brakes against self-destruction. As they stopped curating the media and spoon-feeding candidates for you to "vote" for, see what kind of characters are getting elected now?

After I went out of business, I worked as a project manager for NYC government construction projects. I once figured out how we could save a lot of money by changing how we did things. So, I went to my immediate boss to explain my plan. The first and only question he asked me was, "Why do you care what it costs?" So I went back to my desk stunned by the rejection. But I asked myself that question. "Why do I care what it costs? No one else does." It's very disheartening.

That's government thinking and what happens if you stay there too long. You start thinking and acting like that. I'm glad I'm retired.

 

[John Wiegerink]

You've got it backwards. They have created the world you live in. The decline that you're (correctly) observing is caused by the side-effect which I do not have a cure for. Here it is: the financial upside of being a hard+smart worker in a private sector has gotten so high, that A or even B-level talent doesn't go into public service anymore. Basically, poor governance. It's not even about the corruption, the issue is that the smart kids never define policy anymore.

I have repeatedly asked well-off, accomplished, smart and passionate individuals on why they spend countless millions on charities instead of running for an office. The response is that they don't want to be surrounded/work with C-level talent. A CEO of a public company is a better career than being the president. An average VP does not see congressmen as worthy peers, and doesn't want to work with them. I am not even talking about city or state level morons, most wouldn't pass an entry level job interview at Google.

Blaming the rich is the dumbest and the most dangerous thing one can do. The rich is your hope. As they stopped curating the media and spoon-feeding candidates for you to "vote" for, see what kind of characters are getting elected now?

This is going off to nowhere. I will say that I have known many smart people that have worked in Government as well as some not very bright ones. Government and the private sector are no different in that respect. You have good, bad and so-so. I personally do not believe in trickle down economics and if you look at the flip in wages for CEO's and the average working class you can see why, but it is what it is. My only gripe is that I have to make up for what that so-called wise wealthy person doesn't pay when it comes to taxes. If I had one wish it would be for a flat tax, no loopholes and the only right offs are for your individual children. Either that or lets go back to the tax system we had under the Eisenhower administration. That's when the wealthy and Corporations paid their fair share(actually more than their fair share).
All that said, I'd just buy something like a Yashicamat, Rolleicord, Minolta Autocord to test the waters of medium format. Those cameras or ones similar are easily capable of professional results and the user can't use the camera as a reason for a bad photograph. I had a good friend who had the best Hasselblad equipment, but was still the worst photographer in our photography circle. JohnW

 

[John Wiegerink]

John, I made a huge mistake by not differentiating between elected officials and government jobs. My comment above was about elected seats only. When it comes to rank and file employees, I am 100% in agreement with you.

OK, got it now! I like Allen's story about his after retirement job. My wife started as a simple office employee for one of the largest County Road Commissions in West Michigan and knows all to well about attitudes of upper government workers. She was eventually promoted to Director of Purchasing there and would procure all things the County would use. Things like salt for winter roads, grader blades, trucks, cars right down to toilet paper. She bought for the taxpayer exactly the way she bought groceries for our household. She spent the taxpayers money very wisely, but many folks at the county didn't like her style. One time they complained about the toilet paper being to rough on their little/big rear sides. They wanted only the best, but she told them that that should take care of their business at home, in the morning, before they come to work. Then they wouldn't have that rough paper problem. She also setup a deal for buying salt that saved the county millions of dollars. Nobody else seemed to care about doing something like that before she did. She's of good Dutch blood that's for sure, but also has a heart of gold too. My father was a good one for always saying, "it's so easy to spend someone elses money". Spending money foolishly should not be an option for Government.
I'll still go with a good Yashicamat or Rolleicord for starters! JohnW

 

[MattKing]

As we have strayed so far, it is past time to bring this thread to its end....