Ra-4 development

[Ballinderry-Michael]

And I am still trying to remember that reason regarding citric acid. I use 1% or 2% acetic acid.

PE

I think the following quotation refers to the reason you're looking for:

The good thing about using a stop bath is that you don't have to remove the last drop of color developer before you pour in stop bath, the stop bath kills developer action anyway. This alone should improve process repeatability and homogeneity across the frame.

A while back PE mentioned that Citric Acid does some bad things to color processes, that's why he recommended an Acetic Acid stop bath. Sadly he couldn't tell us any details, but this Kodak publication claims that Citric Acid plus Rapid Fixer removes the orange mask (i.e. hurts dyes), something you want to avoid at all costs in normal color processing.

but the link in that quotation is now dead.

 

[Photo Engineer]

That may not be it, because that refers specifically to the yellow dye used for filtration and not the mask. That page is no longer valid, but I believe that it refers to removing the CLS layer in color films processed in B&W processes.

PE

 

[BMbikerider]

I have the Kodak 1-63 version and can testify BMbikerider's advice. Avoid sniffing it straight from the concentrate i.e. lowering your nose over the opened bottle and breathing. One sniff may not and probably does not harm the lungs if you have no breathing problems but it does "catch your breath " unpleasantly. At its strength it is a long way from strong vinegar.

pentaxuser

Another use I have made it do is to clean up the developing spirals when they get stained. It will also remove stains from plastic measures and the insides of developing tanks. It really does work

 

[pentaxuser]

Another use I have made it do is to clean up the developing spirals when they get stained. It will also remove stains from plastic measures and the insides of developing tanks. It really does work

I'll bet at even normal strength of 1:63 it is a real beauty at removing tough limescale as well which we get in this part of the country

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

The Kodak Indicator Stop bath concentrate is strong enough to damage some laminate counter materials.

 

[mshchem]

I was wondering the specifics when developing color prints and had a few questions. If i develop the paper in a tank do I agitate it like you do when developing film or just pour in the chemicals and let them do their work? Also do you guys recommend a stop bath and if you do what do you use? Would my ilfostop work as a stop bath or is that exclusively for black and white? Any help would be appreciated thanks.

RA-4 is very easy to process. I've used the Unicolor, Beseler, and Jobo tubes. Temperature control is not critical as long as you develop the print to completion. I have the luxury of a big darkroom sink, the chemicals can stain surfaces. I helped a friend get started, I had exposure and filtration worked out on my enlarger. I exposed a piece of paper, my friend put it in a Beseler 8x10 print drum.

I warm my chemistry in a microwave (dedicated, no food!) He started with 105 F water pre-rinse, probably around 250mL, he rolled the drum like a log back and forth for about a minute. Next dumped out all the water. Then poured in about 100 ml of developer, warm, I develop at 100F, 95F is standard. Rolled the drum around for at least a minute, you can go longer once the print is fully developed it won't change if you doddle for 30 seconds or so. I usually use a stop bath, I've been given so darn many bottles of Kodak Indicator Stop Bath that's what I use. I use 15ml of concentrate per liter. This stuff is 28% acetic acid, so it will, blind you, it will choke you, it will eat your fingers off. So take precautions or maybe just start with your less odoriferous Ilfostop. Or just use 250mL of water or no stop and go directly to blix.
You can get stains sometimes without a stop. Give it a good Blix with nice warm chemistry. RA-4 chemicals are the cheapest stuff in your darkroom. Wash the print well in warm running water in a tray and if you don't want mold to grow on the print use a final dunk in stabilizer.
If I'm using tubes or my famous 1960s vintage Kodak rapid color processor, I use everything one shot, use once and toss. If I'm using stabilizer I do it in a tray at room temperature, make up a liter use it for a while then toss.
I don't usually stabilize when I use my Kodak rapid color processor, I shake off the water and dry with a fancy Ilford dryer.
I would recommend following Kodak's instructions, the stabilizer has anti-microbial for long term storage. Get a dish rack or one of Ilford's overpriced drying racks, you need to make sure the water or stabilizer can run off. Otherwise you will have water marks.

Warning : RA-4 paper in sheets is an endangered creature. There's only one vendor left, Fuji. Otherwise it's in very expensive rolls. Everyone should print color it's so much fun. But it's awfully tempting to just use a (I can't believe that I'm saying this) a F*$#*ing stink jet printer. Of course you will never throw your enlarger out of a 2nd floor window onto the pavement, and given time you will a S*#@*$#** clogged ink jet printer. MHO subtle as always.

 

[RPC]

For those of you not bothered by the smell of the chemicals, RA-4 is so much easier when done in trays at room temperature. When I found out it could be done this way I said goodbye to the hassle of drums forever. I don't need a pre-wet or stop bath, requiring only two trays, and making it even easier. Enjoyment increased, and productivity is so much better as well.

 

[Rudeofus]

I think the following quotation refers to the reason you're looking for:

A while back PE mentioned that Citric Acid does some bad things to color processes, that's why he recommended an Acetic Acid stop bath. Sadly he couldn't tell us any details, but this Kodak publication claims that Citric Acid plus Rapid Fixer removes the orange mask (i.e. hurts dyes), something you want to avoid at all costs in normal color processing.

but the link in that quotation is now dead.

125px.com apparently kept an archive of Kodak's technical documents, including the one I referenced back then.

 

[John51]

I've heard of pinholes occurring in certain films because of a citric acid stopbath. Perhaps there used to be RA4 papers that didn't do well with citric?

 

[pentaxuser]

The Kodak Indicator Stop bath concentrate is strong enough to damage some laminate counter materials.

Now he tells me! I used it in concentrate form to rid my face of a few blemishes and in the hope that it might make me look more like George Clooney but it was a disaster. I ended up looking like Fred Clooney who runs our local fish and chip shop and who permanently smells of vinegar.

pentaxuser

 

[mshchem]

For those of you not bothered by the smell of the chemicals, RA-4 is so much easier when done in trays at room temperature. When I found out it could be done this way I said goodbye to the hassle of drums forever. I don't need a pre-wet or stop bath, requiring only two trays, and making it even easier. Enjoyment increased, and productivity is so much better as well.

Very good advice. All the silly tubes just slow you down. The stop is used in equipment that tends to stain
Stop isn't used in commercial processing, the temperature is high to shorten the time.

 

[Rudeofus]

The biggest issue I have with tray development is that you have open dishes with toxic and corrosive chemistry in pitch darkness. Some people maybe particularly gifted and can handle this reliably for years, but I'm afraid I am not one of them. Rotary drums it is for me ....

 

[RPC]

Never been a problem for me. The use of small glow-in-the-dark tape placement, experience, and simply being careful has made working in the dark something I don't give a second thought to. I have never needed a safelight but they are successfully used by some.

 

[koraks]

The biggest issue I have with tray development is that you have open dishes with toxic and corrosive chemistry in pitch darkness. Some people maybe particularly gifted and can handle this reliably for years, but I'm afraid I am not one of them. Rotary drums it is for me ....

It helps to use trays with high walls. I use plastic storage containers that are much less prone to chemistry sloshing over the edges of the tray as they are quite deep.

 

[MattKing]

A couple of Heath/Mitchell Color Canoes would probably be the best solution for those who want to tray develop:

I prefer having at least 4 tubes that I can cycle through and allow to air dry between uses.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Don't confuse mere odor issues with safety issues breathing or the possibility of long-term sensitization. But I make RA4 prints up to 30X40 inches in drums, and some people have done quite a bit bigger in drums. It takes surprisingly little chemistry compared to trays or big replenishable roller-transport machines. And once the drum is loaded in the darkroom, you can do the actual processing outdoors to further avoid fumes.

 

[RPC]

Based on my experience doing both drums and trays, I can get more capacity from the developer with trays than using developer one-shot in a drum. I have got more than 40 8x10 prints per liter with no visible degradation using Kodak RA-RT developer/replenisher. With the bleach-fix I get high capacity by checking and re-adjusting the pH during use.

 

[mshchem]

125px.com apparently kept an archive of Kodak's technical documents, including the one I referenced back then.

Wow, I've just bookmarked 125px website. I'm going to print out some of these documents. This is amazing bonefide technical data. Thanks for leading me to this treasure.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Never been a problem for me. The use of small glow-in-the-dark tape placement, experience, and simply being careful has made working in the dark something I don't give a second thought to. I have never needed a safelight but they are successfully used by some.

Believe it or not, but we have had glow tape fog color paper.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

A couple of Heath/Mitchell Color Canoes would probably be the best solution for those who want to tray develop:
View attachment 225392
I prefer having at least 4 tubes that I can cycle through and allow to air dry between uses.

Personally, I find the canoe to be very inconvenient and messy.

PE

 

[mshchem]

Was the original idea of the different versions of the "color canoe" concept was to float the thing in a tub of tempered water? ? I have a Honeywell Nikor version I bought in the 70's. Darn thing is beautiful, but I could never figure out what made it "color" especially with the old processes. I had a Premier stainless steel drum, with rubber end caps. It had a light trap in one end, floated in a big yellow plastic tub of water. I just kept it log rolling worked great.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The inventor brought it to Kodak in hopes of selling the idea to EK. That was before my time there, so it was intended to be for the P122 or Ektaprint C process. The KRL workers found it clumsy and difficult to use and did not go for it. During a cleanup in the late '60s, one with a Kodak label was about to go in the dumpster, and I asked for it and was given it and I have had it ever since. I assume it is a one of a kind and some sort of collectors item.

It is under the sink in my DR IIRC.

PE

 

[mshchem]

The inventor brought it to Kodak in hopes of selling the idea to EK. That was before my time there, so it was intended to be for the P122 or Ektaprint C process. The KRL workers found it clumsy and difficult to use and did not go for it. During a cleanup in the late '60s, one with a Kodak label was about to go in the dumpster, and I asked for it and was given it and I have had it ever since. I assume it is a one of a kind and some sort of collectors item.

It is under the sink in my DR IIRC.

PE

Jackpot! Should go to a museum. P-122 had been replaced by CP-5 when I got involved. I did get to use Ektacolor Professional paper, fiber base. I still have a few prints that, last I looked, were in nice shape. I was a babe in the woods. No one to help me, 13-14 years old. I remember that Kodacolor negatives were easier for me to print than Ektacolor-S. I don't think my Acetate filters were big enough to fit my filter drawer, so I was all over the map. The Kodacolor-X negatives printed so easy.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Oh, I have given a lot to GEM and to Nick and Mark.

I have much more to give.

I got some of the first Type "C" material delivered to me in a refrigerated truck from the Kodak office in PIttsburgh. I still have many of those and the Type "R" prints in good condition here in my portfolio somewhere. The Printon prints are ageing badly though, IMHO.

PE

 

[RPC]

Believe it or not, but we have had glow tape fog color paper.

PE

Anyone using it should certainly test for fogging. I use tiny snippets of it which I can barely see with no visible fogging.