RA-4 Color Development Process Question

[MEB]

Only if the light is predominantly yellow.
If it is predominantly green (some fluorescent lights, some LEDs) the cast will be magenta.
Do you have a watch with an illuminated face?

This is actually a good hint: I remember that my timer fluorescent light was slightly greenish at the time when I exposed my paper underneath the enlarger. I would have never thought that the fluorescent timer light could affect paper exposure here?
For the wet development I never use a timer nor a cellphone. I count the seconds in my head and be fairly consistant here.

 

[RPC]

So, question is how long does it take to fully develop, and blix in a tray at 20 F.??

With the Kodak RA-RT developer, I use 2 minutes @ 68-75F with gentle agitation. That seems optimum. I blix for 2 1/2 minutes with more vigorous agitation, and wash for 4 minutes in running water. For me, using a stop bath or not using one seems to make no difference.

 

[RPC]

Thanks for sharing your experience - regarding my initial post, do you think the developer was still okay even after usage in an open tray for > 5 hours, and the magenta cast just came from a change in pH as discussed earlier? The RA-4 manual mentions that the developer won't last in an open tray for more than 4 hours of usage.

Interesting part here in this discussion is that there are very contradicting reports how the RA-4 developer can be used. I bought the Arista RA-4 developer kit - it might also depend which RA-4 developer (and Blix) are used. I have no experience with the original Kodak RA-4 chemicals.

To store the chemicals in glass containers makes sense, I am going to do this from now on as I do it with my C-41 chemicals for color film development.

Often times the literature seems overly conservative in solution capacity and longevity estimates. I have had both C-41 and RA-4 chems last much longer than Kodak's literature says. For example Kodak says their color developers only last a few weeks stored in full glass containers, but I have gotten years! There does seem to be a slight rise in pH over time, but can be compensated for.

I have had my RA-4 developers last at least 4 hours in a tray, bottled them up and re-used them once or twice with no noticible effects. YMMV. In your case I don't think a pH change caused your problem. pH increases have only happened to me with fresh solutions over long periods of time. I have never experienced your problem so as you said it may be some problem related to your brand, or fog, or contamination of some sort.

 

[MEB]

Often times the literature seems overly conservative in solution capacity and longevity estimates. I have had both C-41 and RA-4 chems last much longer than Kodak's literature says. For example Kodak says their color developers only last a few weeks stored in full glass containers, but I have gotten years! There does seem to be a slight rise in pH over time, but can be compensated for.

I have had my RA-4 developers last at least 4 hours in a tray, bottled them up and re-used them once or twice with no noticible effects. YMMV. In your case I don't think a pH change caused your problem. pH increases have only happened to me with fresh solutions over long periods of time. I have never experienced your problem so as you said it may be some problem related to your brand, or fog, or contamination of some sort.

Yep. I definitely learn a lot from the replies here! Next time I make sure that the timer light is pitch dark before getting the paper underneath the enlarger. Also I will test the drum development instead since it uses much less developer per run, and I might be able to do this in a slightly heated water bath to speed up development time.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Remember that surface to volume ratio is important with a tray vs a tank. A narrow tank will have less aerial oxidation when compared with a tray.

PE

 

[DREW WILEY]

The trick is to get the air temp INSIDE the drum correct first, not just the outside temp. You obviously do this with a correctly heated prewet cycle prior to the developer, in which you can use a significantly greater volume of solution, since H2O is cheap!

 

[bvy]

The trick is to get the air temp INSIDE the drum correct first, not just the outside temp. You obviously do this with a correctly heated prewet cycle prior to the developer, in which you can use a significantly greater volume of solution, since H2O is cheap!

What Drew said. With drums, I do two prewets with water at about 100F. Alternately, I might fill the drum with tempered water and dump before processing. This solves the (way overhyped) problem about drums having to be bone dry. But typically I only do this for test prints, say 4x5's in an 8x10 drum. It's not practical for larger drums. I do all my RA4 processing at 94F.

 

[FujiLove]

Just chipping in to agree with what others have said...

I use a Jobo colour safelight and have never seen any fogging or other detrimental effects on a print. I also use a heated Nova tank, which is superb and highly recommended. I replenish 10ml per 10x8 sheet and have had continuous use of the chemicals for weeks at a time. At the end of each session I simply replace the floating lids and cover the top of the tank with cling film.

 

[bvy]

I have the Unicolor instruction somewhere. Required reading, I think. I'll try to post them later (I'm not at home).

Look here:
http://willwilson.com/unicolorinstructions.html

 

[BMbikerider]

The beauty of the Nova deep tank processors is you do not have to rinse out and dry the drum after every print. No warming the drum up again before the next print, just bash on regardless. The chemicals are very accurately maintained within 1 degree and require very little clearing up afterwards. Plus of course only 100cc of developer for every 10 10"x8" prints (pro-rata for larger sizes up to approx 12"x16" where you can dev 2 prints with a bit of capacity left over to use for developing test strips. A 12" x 16" processor such as the one I use has a bench footprint of only 17" x 7".

If you haven't seen them can I suggest you look at www.theimagingwarehouse.com to see what they look like

 

[MEB]

Look here:
http://willwilson.com/unicolorinstructions.html

Thanks a lot for this one, very useful!

 

[MEB]

The beauty of the Nova deep tank processors is you do not have to rinse out and dry the drum after every print. No warming the drum up again before the next print, just bash on regardless. The chemicals are very accurately maintained within 1 degree and require very little clearing up afterwards. Plus of course only 100cc of developer for every 10 10"x8" prints (pro-rata for larger sizes up to approx 12"x16" where you can dev 2 prints with a bit of capacity left over to use for developing test strips. A 12" x 16" processor such as the one I use has a bench footprint of only 17" x 7".

If you haven't seen them can I suggest you look at www.theimagingwarehouse.com to see what they look like

Tried to find them - do you have the link to the specific site?

 

[BMbikerider]

The link to the company who makes them works for me and when the home page opens up, there is a list of items (white on black writing on the left side) Look under Darkroom Equipment which is the 4th down from the top. This displays the range of their processors both film and print. The paper processors are the 3rd along from the left on the top row. They are a deceptively simple device but very very effective.

They are, for me quite expensive if bought new, but if you also Google Second Hand Darkroom Supplies which is a small company in England, they nearly always have used ones in stock at hugely reduced prices. As there is little to go wrong with them they are a good buy. (In the time I have been using a NOVA, I have only had to replace the heating element once and that is through my own stupid mishandling.)

These processors are not exactly cheap, but if you google www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk I have just checked their website and and they have a very clean 4 bath 12x16 at present showing and it is around £195 Stirling. The 4th bath is a wash slot so you can hook the processor straight up to a water supply to wash the prints as well.

 

[MEB]

The link to the company who makes them works for me and when the home page opens up, there is a list of items (white on black writing on the left side) Look under Darkroom Equipment which is the 4th down from the top. This displays the range of their processors both film and print. The paper processors are the 3rd along from the left on the top row. They are a deceptively simple device but very very effective.

They are, for me quite expensive if bought new, but if you also Google Second Hand Darkroom Supplies which is a small company in England, they nearly always have used ones in stock at hugely reduced prices. As there is little to go wrong with them they are a good buy. (In the time I have been using a NOVA, I have only had to replace the heating element once and that is through my own stupid mishandling.)

These processors are not exactly cheap, but if you google www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk I have just checked their website and and they have a very clean 4 bath 12x16 at present showing and it is around £195 Stirling. The 4th bath is a wash slot so you can hook the processor straight up to a water supply to wash the prints as well.

Thanks, found it now! Yep, they might be good, but at this point I don't want to invest further just for this process. I will test a drum development next. Thanks again for the links and the information!

 

[sfaber17]

When I used some Unicolor, it seemed to be a bit more greenish when it got old, and the fresh Kodak RA4 was pinker and gave better skin color. My borders on the Mitsubishi paper had a hint of tan/brown even though everything was totally dark, although it may have been due to stray enlarger light and not masking the borders.

 

[mshchem]

I have been developing C41 film and making prints from the negatives for the past 26 years so I think I can speak with a degree of experience. (I'm still learning though.) I have always used Kodak Ektacolour 20 ltr kits for my RA4 developer and the equivalent for the blix. (With a stop bath used in between) I have always used a 12"x16" NOVA deep-tank processor for the dev, stop and blix stages and have never EVER experienced the developer 'going off even when I don't change the developer for several months. I only do that to clean out the tanks of any accumulated sludge. Actually the stop bath section is usually the worst.

At the end of the session the chemicals are replenished at a ratio of 10cc per every 80sq ins of paper (a 10"x8" sheet) so on and so forth. Sometimes if the carry over from one bath to another is greater, I just replenish up to the mark on the tank. I then replace the floating lids which reduces the exposed area of the chemicals to virtually nil. But I also cover the top of the processor with plastic film (called cling film in UK)

These NOVA processors in the size I use take just under 2 litres of chemical each and when I make up a new batch of chemicals I also make enough to give me a few sessions with spare chemicals for replenishment.
It makes no difference if you over replenish but does if you don't replenish at all.

All pre-mixed developer is stored in 500cc bottles and when needed, decanted out into 100cc bottles for use after each session. Stay away from plastic containers, no matter how thick the walls are they will allow oxygen to permeate in the developer. Like one other reply metal containers, even stainless steel is best not used.

As for chemical decomposition, I think there is more risk of the liquid concentrates decomposing before the diluted solutions are expired.

I have also found that with C41 developer, mixing all the concentrate and again storing them in glass bottles (500cc and 100cc) ready to use when needed, means I can expect to be able to finish the whole quantity before it 'goes off'

I have been developing C41 film and making prints from the negatives for the past 26 years so I think I can speak with a degree of experience. (I'm still learning though.) I have always used Kodak Ektacolour 20 ltr kits for my RA4 developer and the equivalent for the blix. (With a stop bath used in between) I have always used a 12"x16" NOVA deep-tank processor for the dev, stop and blix stages and have never EVER experienced the developer 'going off even when I don't change the developer for several months. I only do that to clean out the tanks of any accumulated sludge. Actually the stop bath section is usually the worst.

At the end of the session the chemicals are replenished at a ratio of 10cc per every 80sq ins of paper (a 10"x8" sheet) so on and so forth. Sometimes if the carry over from one bath to another is greater, I just replenish up to the mark on the tank. I then replace the floating lids which reduces the exposed area of the chemicals to virtually nil. But I also cover the top of the processor with plastic film (called cling film in UK)

These NOVA processors in the size I use take just under 2 litres of chemical each and when I make up a new batch of chemicals I also make enough to give me a few sessions with spare chemicals for replenishment.
It makes no difference if you over replenish but does if you don't replenish at all.

All pre-mixed developer is stored in 500cc bottles and when needed, decanted out into 100cc bottles for use after each session. Stay away from plastic containers, no matter how thick the walls are they will allow oxygen to permeate in the developer. Like one other reply metal containers, even stainless steel is best not used.

As for chemical decomposition, I think there is more risk of the liquid concentrates decomposing before the diluted solutions are expired.

I have also found that with C41 developer, mixing all the concentrate and again storing them in glass bottles (500cc and 100cc) ready to use when needed, means I can expect to be able to finish the whole quantity before it 'goes off'

I must say this seems like an outstanding method. The best method is replenishment, and the Nova slot units have so little exposure to oxygen especially when using the lids. The methodology of keeping full bottles of replenisher solutions works great. Oxygen is bad news. I agree with you on concentrates going bad, I make up stock solutions of all my black and white, and color chemistry and always store in absolutely full bottles. If I'm not storing for over 6 months I use lab gade plastic. But I have 1 Qt. Amber Gass bottles with polyseal caps, kept absolutely full you can go a very long time .
Good advice, thanks Mike

 

[MEB]

UPDATE: Thanks so much everybody who jumped in here proving me with help and advice! I just finished my first excellent looking color print on 11x14" Aristacolor paper using the drum process as recommended:
1. It turned out that the magenta cast which I described in my original post came from the phosphorescent timer light. This time I made sure that I use the enlarge in absolute pitch darkness. And the problem was gone!
2. The drum process worked perfectly as suggested. I am using an Unicolor drum suitable to fit the 11x14" paper size. After the lid is closed, the development can be done under light. I followed the advice to use 120 ml glass vials for developer and Blix. After each step I filled the used solution back into the emptied vial. I only slopped the stopper solution and the pre-rinse water. So far no issue to reuse the chemicals either. I don't see it as cumbersome to roll the drum myself within a plastic tray.

The print below was made from a 35 mm negative taken in 2003.

 

[mnemosyne]

UPDATE: Thanks so much everybody who jumped in here proving me with help and advice! I just finished my first excellent looking color print on 11x14" Aristacolor paper using the drum process as recommended:

Looks good! Congratulations!

 

[Photo Engineer]

Congratulations.

 

[bvy]

Excellent! Good for you.

 

[Wayne]

Good job! Another convert to RA-4.

 

[MEB]

Good job! Another convert to RA-4.

Thanks to all for the positive feedback! RA-4 was my last missing method after I already develop B&W silver gelatin prints (plus toning). I also do B&W and color film development myself. I am still amazed by the colors easily obtained in this RA-4 development.