Question: Has there been any discussions regarding photographing children?

guangong · Nov 15, 2022

I frequently take pictures of children in the local parks with absolutely no problem. I keep at a distance that doesn’t intrude into their playing space. Often I engage in a conversation with the parents. I share my experiences with my own daughter when small, and my grandson, and they talk about their children. We talk about schools, things kinds like to do, at what age to begin music lessons, etc.

Momus has it right on. No problems.Of course, If you appear to be slinking around or act like a pervert, folks will respond unfavorably.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 15, 2022

When we had a small, cute poodle, I would take him on my journeys around NYC. I didn't seem so threatening with a camera in one hand and a leash in the other. If things got bad anyway, I could always hand him the camera.

koraks · Nov 15, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Take your girlfriend or wife if you want to shoot kids.

That's the thing though - my girlfriend was with me in that one example. Even this doesn't help anymore, it seems

Anyway, I appreciate your input, also from @Don Heisz and @snusmumriken !

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 15, 2022

koraks said:
That's the thing though - my girlfriend was with me in that one example. Even this doesn't help anymore, it seems

Anyway, I appreciate your input, also from @Don Heisz and @snusmumriken !

Hand her the camera and let her deal with it.

removedacct1 · Nov 15, 2022

koraks said:
It's not so much the fact that people don't want their kids photographed, I'm totally fine with that, I understand and I think it's ethically valid to ask it. It's the sense of entitlement that people seem to have in demanding a photographer to stop what (s)he's doing while doing it in accordance with the law in a public space. If they ask nicely, of course I'll assure them that no, I won't photograph anything they don't want, and yes, I share your concerns etc. But the ask nicely part is the essential part here.

My perception here in 'Merica is that people no longer know how to "ask nicely" when they feel they are dealing with "a situation". Most people simply go straight into "my rights are being violated and I have to act!" territory. I no longer take my cameras out in public spaces for this reason. I mean, why bother when you know there is a significant chance you're going to be harassed by someone who perceives your activities as "suspect"?

koraks · Nov 15, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Hand her the camera and let her deal with it.

Well, given what you just said in another thread about women photographers, there would be all the more reason to do so

@paulbarden I think we're gravitating in that direction over here as well, and it saddens me, evidently. Street photography has never been my 'thing' - one reason is that the interactions it brings are not necessarily pleasant. I'll gladly leave it to others!

VinceInMT · Nov 15, 2022

Well, yes, it’s a subject matter that can be problematic. I don’t usually use humans as subject matter so it’s not much of an issue for me. That said, a couple years ago I was working on a series of geometric abstractions and went to a local playground to shoot the equipment there. At first here was no one else there so no problem. After a bit, while I was laying on the ground under a climbing gym, a family showed up and the kids were climbing above me. I smiled at the mom and she didn’t seemed concerned, probably because my wife and dog were with me and, maybe, because I was using a 1950s folding camera. I did get some shots of the kids but they are not recognizable, just a silhouette in the background or a hand on a rail.

Cholentpot · Nov 15, 2022

This is a legal vs ethics question.

In the USA as far as I know you can take photos of whom you'd like in public. It's a public space, there's dozens of cameras recording your every move either way. Be it a doorbell, police or private security camera. DHS sets up cameras in my neighborhood around the holidays.

The real issue here is lack of community. I live in a tight knit community where everyone knows me, if they don't know me they know someone I know. I'm a known entity. I take photos of everything and everyone. If someone has an issue they approach me, generally nice about it and have a word. I know in the future not to bother with them. One of my favorite photos I've ever taken, one that would be on a cover of a book is basically unusable because the subject in the photo does not want their photo being public. So I'm stuck with a once in a lifetime shot that hangs on my wall. I have hundreds of photos of local kids, when they get older I can ask if I can use them. Or ask their parents. For now they're 'sleeping' photos put away in archive.

Cholentpot · Nov 15, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Well, yes, it’s a subject matter that can be problematic. I don’t usually use humans as subject matter so it’s not much of an issue for me. That said, a couple years ago I was working on a series of geometric abstractions and went to a local playground to shoot the equipment there. At first here was no one else there so no problem. After a bit, while I was laying on the ground under a climbing gym, a family showed up and the kids were climbing above me. I smiled at the mom and she didn’t seemed concerned, probably because my wife and dog were with me and, maybe, because I was using a 1950s folding camera. I did get some shots of the kids but they are not recognizable, just a silhouette in the background or a hand on a rail.

I forgot to mention this too. I can get away with anything using a TLR.

GRHazelton · Nov 15, 2022

So far I've had no problems "shooting" kids in public places, with one exception. My wife Flora, her daughter Glynnis and granddaughter Sofia were in a designated play area in Lennox Mall, an upscale mall in Atlanta. The many kids were enjoying life, their parents were wielding their cell phones, I I was using my Pentax K10 D with battery grip. Big black camera, obviously "professional." All was well until a Mall security person rolled up on a Segway and told me, "No photography. It says that by the entrance." I gently protested that parents were taking pictures, but to no avail. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......
Later on I mentioned the encounter to someone at a Wolf Camera also in Lennox, he said that they had problems, too, since many customers wanted to step outside and try a camera, and were accosted by the Mall "security."
Here's a useful discussion of photographers' rights. The author is both a lawyer and a published photograper.

Bert P. Krages - Attorney at Law

www.krages.com

I keep a copy of this in each of my camera bags, just in case.

Arthurwg · Nov 15, 2022

Unfortunately our world has become much more dangerous in recent years, and folks have become more frightened.

GRHazelton · Nov 15, 2022

Arthurwg said:
Unfortunately our world has become much more dangerous in recent years, and folks have become more frightened.

Or perhaps there aren't more child abductions, etc., than there were, but social media, etc, publicize far more readily and widely than was possible in the past.....

Cholentpot · Nov 15, 2022

Arthurwg said:
Unfortunately our world has become much more dangerous in recent years, and folks have become more frightened.

We're faaaaaaaaar safer than ever. Since leaded gasoline and it's effects have passed we're a far less violent society. We just have more focus on the violence now.

faberryman · Nov 15, 2022

GRHazelton said:
I keep a copy of this in each of my camera bags, just in case.

Do you find that after security at the mall reads that, they let you go ahead and photograph customers and their children?

warden · Nov 15, 2022

I've never had a parent complain while I make pictures with children in them, but it's not all that often that children are in my photos any more since my own kids are grown. I have had people complain angrily though when they see me taking a picture of their car, or house, or business. A fortune teller came at me a few weeks ago, livid that I would take a picture of the palm reading signage outside of her business. People are nutty.

logan2z · Nov 15, 2022

warden said:
I've never had a parent complain while I make pictures with children in them, but it's not all that often that children are in my photos any more since my own kids are grown. I have had people complain angrily though when they see me taking a picture of their car, or house, or business. A fortune teller came at me a few weeks ago, livid that I would take a picture of the palm reading signage outside of her business. People are nutty.

I once had someone pull up beside me in a pickup truck and start questioning why I was taking a picture of a tree on their father's land. The property was fenced and I was standing outside the fence on the road. There was no house or any other building on the property, just an open field with a tree. How paranoid can one get?

VinceInMT · Nov 15, 2022

logan2z said:
I once had someone pull up beside me in a pickup truck and start questioning why I was taking a picture of a tree on their father's land. The property was fenced and I was standing outside the fence on the road. There was no house or any other building on the property, just an open field with a tree. How paranoid can one get?

Had the same experience a year or so ago. Out looking for subjects displaying “repetition” I took a picture of window-mounted air conditioning units on the back of an apartment building. I didn’t even get out of my car and shot from the street. A guy pulls up and blocks my car and starts yelling at me that I am violating the privacy of those who live there (it’s an old folks home.). I told him that I am on a public street and that the eyeball (or camera) doesn’t trespass. He pulled out his phone and said he was calling the police. I told him to go ahead. While he was doing that I simply backed up and left. It looked like he was trying to get my license. I assume that the police told him the correct information.

In another case, which I have shared here before, I walked a few block from my house to take photos of cars going by to get shots that represented “motion and blur) for a class assignment. I had a 35mm camera on a tripod and got rousted by the police. He had driven by and thought whatever I was doing was suspicious and didn’t recognized what this equipment was. I explained and even showed him the class assignment sheet but he wasn’t buying it. We had a long, silent impasse before he left.

Now I generally just sketch in public. So far I haven’t had a problem with that.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 15, 2022

GRHazelton said:
Or perhaps there aren't more child abductions, etc., than there were, but social media, etc, publicize far more readily and widely than was possible in the past.....

There never were school shootings like we have now. Videos of crimes are readily available today. What we used to just read about we can now see. Some of it is really scary. Nuts are walking around. We used to institutionalize them years ago. So the danger level has escalated; people are scared for their kids and themselves.

Cholentpot · Nov 15, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
There never were school shootings like we have now. Videos of crimes are readily available today. What we used to just read about we can now see. Some of it is really scary. Nuts are walking around. We used to institutionalize them years ago. So the danger level has escalated; people are scared for their kids and themselves.

Can't put people away against their will. We just give them chemical lobotomies and hope for the best. Ask yourself how many of these school shooters are medicated.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 15, 2022

GRHazelton said:
So far I've had no problems "shooting" kids in public places, with one exception. My wife Flora, her daughter Glynnis and granddaughter Sofia were in a designated play area in Lennox Mall, an upscale mall in Atlanta. The many kids were enjoying life, their parents were wielding their cell phones, I I was using my Pentax K10 D with battery grip. Big black camera, obviously "professional." All was well until a Mall security person rolled up on a Segway and told me, "No photography. It says that by the entrance." I gently protested that parents were taking pictures, but to no avail. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......
Later on I mentioned the encounter to someone at a Wolf Camera also in Lennox, he said that they had problems, too, since many customers wanted to step outside and try a camera, and were accosted by the Mall "security."
Here's a useful discussion of photographers' rights. The author is both a lawyer and a published photograper.

Bert P. Krages - Attorney at Law

www.krages.com

I keep a copy of this in each of my camera bags, just in case.

A mall is private property so you have to follow their restrictions or leave when asked or be escorted out.

I am surprised though that the photo store can't get management to allow customers to try a camera right outside their door. On the other hand, you can get a pretty good idea of how a camera works by shooting in the camera store.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 15, 2022

logan2z said:
I once had someone pull up beside me in a pickup truck and start questioning why I was taking a picture of a tree on their father's land. The property was fenced and I was standing outside the fence on the road. There was no house or any other building on the property, just an open field with a tree. How paranoid can one get?

Maybe you're suspicious looking.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 15, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Had the same experience a year or so ago. Out looking for subjects displaying “repetition” I took a picture of window-mounted air conditioning units on the back of an apartment building. I didn’t even get out of my car and shot from the street. A guy pulls up and blocks my car and starts yelling at me that I am violating the privacy of those who live there (it’s an old folks home.). I told him that I am on a public street and that the eyeball (or camera) doesn’t trespass. He pulled out his phone and said he was calling the police. I told him to go ahead. While he was doing that I simply backed up and left. It looked like he was trying to get my license. I assume that the police told him the correct information.

In another case, which I have shared here before, I walked a few block from my house to take photos of cars going by to get shots that represented “motion and blur) for a class assignment. I had a 35mm camera on a tripod and got rousted by the police. He had driven by and thought whatever I was doing was suspicious and didn’t recognized what this equipment was. I explained and even showed him the class assignment sheet but he wasn’t buying it. We had a long, silent impasse before he left.

Now I generally just sketch in public. So far I haven’t had a problem with that.

Sketching? Sounds suspicious to me.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 15, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Can't put people away against their will. We just give them chemical lobotomies and hope for the best. Ask yourself how many of these school shooters are medicated.

The problem is they stop taking their meds.

Sirius Glass · Nov 15, 2022

Daniela said:
I think this has become a tricky subject because of social media and a better awareness of consent. Children born in the past few years may have their whole lives on display without choosing so, and without knowing how that information could be used in the future. Then, there's social media and the potential misuse of someone's photograph, for example to create an embarrassing meme. This might seem trivial, but, here in France, you can indeed get sued for publishing an image that may negatively affect a person even if it was taken in a public space (people have the right to privacy in public).

So, there's a legal aspect to it and there's also a personal comfort component. I personally avoid taking pictures of people on general unless they're silhouetted or far enough that you can't make out who they are. I'd feel disrespectful, otherwise.

I tend to take photographs, on purpose, without people because their clothes can automatically date the photograph. I prefer to photograph time invariant subjects, if possible.

Arthurwg · Nov 15, 2022

Cholentpot said:
We're faaaaaaaaar safer than ever. Since leaded gasoline and it's effects have passed we're a far less violent society. We just have more focus on the violence now.

If you believe that you're either not paying attention or living in a bubble.

Question: Has there been any discussions regarding photographing children?

guangong

Alan Edward Klein

Attachments

koraks

Moderator

Alan Edward Klein

removedacct1

koraks

Moderator

VinceInMT

Cholentpot

Cholentpot

GRHazelton

Bert P. Krages - Attorney at Law

Arthurwg

GRHazelton

Cholentpot

faberryman

warden

logan2z

VinceInMT

Alan Edward Klein

Cholentpot

Alan Edward Klein

Bert P. Krages - Attorney at Law

Alan Edward Klein

Alan Edward Klein

Alan Edward Klein

Sirius Glass

Arthurwg

Question: Has there been any discussions regarding photographing children?

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency