Question about HC 110 in new, 1litre packaging in USA

StoneNYC · Dec 9, 2013

MattKing said:
Apple doesn't manufacture the Iphone - Foxconn does.

And most likely GM doesn't actually make the parts - one of thousands of separate part manufacturers do - Magna being an example of a larger one.

Oh I thought Samsung made the Apple iPhone stuff! Lol anyway I get it.

timor · Dec 10, 2013

Actually on the bottle such a small label on the back says:
Made in Germany for:
Eastman Kodak Sarl - Geneva
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester NY 14560
For distribution in USA

No website for this Eastman Kodak Sarl. Google and other directories show it sitting right on Geneva International Airport. SARL (Société à responsabilité limitée) seems to be a Swiss equivalent to Co. Ltd. in English speaking world. I wouldn't be surprise if that would be a one person in 10 by 10 office just coordinating shipments. I think any complains must be send directly to Rochester. If there is anyone who will listen.

pdeeh · Dec 10, 2013

^quite

Axle · Dec 10, 2013

So I talked with my local camera shop, Burlington Camera, and yes it is a new size, but the formula is the same. However now it is easier to work with dilutions from concentrate rather than making your stock solution then diluting from there. I bought up the last bottle of the old format the same day.

Dilution A - 1+15
Dilution B - 1+31
Dilution C - 1+19 (Has anyone ever tried Dilution C?)
Dilution D - 1+39
Dilution E - 1+47
Dilution F - 1+79

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 10, 2013

Axle said:
So I talked with my local camera shop, Burlington Camera, and yes it is a new size, but the formula is the same. However now it is easier to work with dilutions from concentrate rather than making your stock solution then diluting from there. I bought up the last bottle of the old format the same day.

Dilution A - 1+15
Dilution B - 1+31
Dilution C - 1+19 (Has anyone ever tried Dilution C?)
Dilution D - 1+39
Dilution E - 1+47
Dilution F - 1+79

Oh no! H is gone?... Now what'll I do?.

DWThomas · Dec 10, 2013

rich815 said:
Oh no! H is gone?... Now what'll I do?.

H was never there -- but you're probably just pulling a leg or two!

StoneNYC · Dec 10, 2013

DWThomas said:
H was never there -- but you're probably just pulling a leg or two!

My dilution "S" (for Stone) 1:50 is very close to E... Hmmmm

Rolfe Tessem · Dec 10, 2013

FWIW, the new stuff works perfectly for me...

As always, when using the more extreme dilutions, one has to be sure that enough concentrate is used to ensure full development even if it results in more total solution than desired. This isn't anything new of course, just a reminder. If developing just one roll in a two roll tank, I'll use dilution H but if I'm processing two rolls, I use dilution B to get enough concentrate for two rolls.

Alex Muir · Dec 10, 2013

The new stuff is working fine for me, although I was not a regular user of the old version. Alex

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

37th Exposure · Dec 10, 2013

Pyrocat?

I have a new one liter bottle of Kodak HC-110, made in Germany for the USA according to the label, expiry on 9/2014. Reading the leaflet glued to the bottle, not only is the stated capacity lower (4 rolls per liter dilution B while a previous Kodak data sheet says 5, for instance), but the ingredient list seems to be missing the Phenidone. If you read the English ingredient list for Europe on the inside, you will clearly see the word "pyrocatechol", as well as no mention of Phenidone. Does anyone have an old bottle to compare to? I thought HC-110 is a PQ type? I am sure I have seen that long chemical name for Phenidone listed on the old American made bottles.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 10, 2013

StoneNYC said:
My dilution "S" (for Stone) 1:50 is very close to E... Hmmmm

Ditto

MattKing · Dec 10, 2013

37th Exposure said:
I have a new one liter bottle of Kodak HC-110, made in Germany for the USA according to the label, expiry on 9/2014. Reading the leaflet glued to the bottle, not only is the stated capacity lower (4 rolls per liter dilution B while a previous Kodak data sheet says 5, for instance), but the ingredient list seems to be missing the Phenidone. If you read the English ingredient list for Europe on the inside, you will clearly see the word "pyrocatechol", as well as no mention of Phenidone. Does anyone have an old bottle to compare to? I thought HC-110 is a PQ type? I am sure I have seen that long chemical name for Phenidone listed on the old American made bottles.

The capacity information may reflect a re-evaluation, since the data sheet gives a 2.5 sheet per liter capacity for tray processing and a 5 sheet per liter capacity for small tank processing (8x10 sheets).

Here is an MSDS from September 2012: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/kodak/HC110MSDS.pdf

The bottle of the old HC-110 replenisher I have at hand lists pyrocatechol as the last of the listed ingredients.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 10, 2013

37th Exposure said:
I have a new one liter bottle of Kodak HC-110, made in Germany for the USA according to the label, expiry on 9/2014. Reading the leaflet glued to the bottle, not only is the stated capacity lower (4 rolls per liter dilution B while a previous Kodak data sheet says 5, for instance), but the ingredient list seems to be missing the Phenidone. If you read the English ingredient list for Europe on the inside, you will clearly see the word "pyrocatechol", as well as no mention of Phenidone. Does anyone have an old bottle to compare to? I thought HC-110 is a PQ type? I am sure I have seen that long chemical name for Phenidone listed on the old American made bottles.

HC-110 does not use phenidone but rather a derivative of it Dimezone-S CAS 13047-13-7. This would be listed by its chemical name if it was listed at all. The chemical is not particularly toxic and is used in such a low concentration that it can be omitted from an MSDS.

37th Exposure · Dec 10, 2013

Got it. I checked the link. Phenidone is clearly listed (3-Pyrazolidinone......). I just cannot find it on the new bottle ingredients. I've read it at least three times. Or have labeling requirements changed?

JonPorter · Dec 10, 2013

I use 1:50, so I call it Dilution E+. When Kodak went to the new bottle they should have also dropped that alphabet soup dilution nonsense and just stated the actual dilution like every other developer. I've used HC-110 for years and I still have to go to Covington to translate a dilution when someone references a letter dilution I don't remember.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 10, 2013

37th Exposure said:
I have a new one liter bottle of Kodak HC-110, made in Germany for the USA according to the label, expiry on 9/2014. Reading the leaflet glued to the bottle, not only is the stated capacity lower (4 rolls per liter dilution B while a previous Kodak data sheet says 5, for instance), but the ingredient list seems to be missing the Phenidone. If you read the English ingredient list for Europe on the inside, you will clearly see the word "pyrocatechol", as well as no mention of Phenidone. Does anyone have an old bottle to compare to? I thought HC-110 is a PQ type? I am sure I have seen that long chemical name for Phenidone listed on the old American made bottles.

Before anyone gets too worked up with pyroccatechin is in the German HC-110 check the MSDS given below.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/kodak/HC110_Developer.pdf

This chemical is listed by Kodak in a bit of obfuscation as 1,2-benzenediol. It must be present in a fairly low concentration < 1% since it is not listed in the list of components. As I have stated many times before there is a lot of information in an MSDS if you read it correctly.

MattKing · Dec 10, 2013

Gerald C Koch said:
Before anyone gets too worked up with pyroccatechin is in the German HC-110 check the MSDS given below.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/kodak/HC110_Developer.pdf

This chemical is listed by Kodak in a bit of obfuscation as 1,2-benzenediol. It must be present in a fairly low concentration < 1% since it is not listed in the list of components. As I have stated many times before there is a lot of information in an MSDS if you read it correctly.

Gerald:

That MSDS is dated September 2009.

The one I linked to a few posts above (#39) is dated August 2012.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: the main difference I see is that the later version adds a reference to: 3-Pyrazolidinone, 4-methyl-1-phenyl- (2654-57-1),

Gerald C Koch · Dec 10, 2013

MattKing said:
Gerald:

That MSDS is dated September 2009.

The one I linked to a few posts above (#39) is dated August 2012.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: the main difference I see is that the later version adds a reference to: 3-Pyrazolidinone, 4-methyl-1-phenyl- (2654-57-1),

Interesting this is the much older developing agent Phenidone B rather than one of the Dimezones.

My point was that pyrocatechin has been in HC-110 for awhile. It was just listed under another name. Manufacturers sometimes play these games.

adelorenzo · Dec 10, 2013

JonPorter said:
I use 1:50, so I call it Dilution E+. When Kodak went to the new bottle they should have also dropped that alphabet soup dilution nonsense and just stated the actual dilution like every other developer. I've used HC-110 for years and I still have to go to Covington to translate a dilution when someone references a letter dilution I don't remember.

Agreed, I just use 1:49 and have no idea what people are talking about with these letters.

MattKing · Dec 10, 2013

adelorenzo said:
Agreed, I just use 1:49 and have no idea what people are talking about with these letters.

The letters are there because HC-110 was originally designed as a possible substitution for a number of other developers used in commercial applications.

Kodak designed it so that labs could replace something like D-76 with HC-110 at dilution ("X").

The other developers could be replaced by HC-110 at other dilutions.

This worked great for pre-existing equipment that employed pre-set times.

37th Exposure · Dec 10, 2013

OK so pyrocatechol/chin has always been there but...

What happened to the Phenidone? It is on the MSDS of the previous versions in some form or other along with the pyrocatechol (thanks all for the chemical name info). I don't have a leftover bottle to look at but I could have sworn it was on the labels back then. I don't see the trade or chemical names for Phenidone or it's variants on the German made bottle. Could someone who knows better about chemistry than I do, please read the label on the new HC-110 (made in Germany for the US), and tell me what I am missing.

37th Exposure · Dec 10, 2013

Just looking again at Gerald and Matts' different MSDS sheets. I do not see any any sort of Phenidone on the older one from Gerald. Maybe it is under another name? Well whatever they're bottling as HC-110 works just fine for me. In any case, Kodak has been blamed over the years for "tinkering" with their formulae (at least according to Anchell and Troop) so it wouldn't surprise me if it's a different mix in every new bottle I open.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 11, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
I predict an increase in demand for HC-110 now that people know there's a small amount of Catechol in it.

Oh crap they changed HC-110! That sucks.

Oh cool! A new developer to try.

donkee · Dec 11, 2013

I'm just ticked that that B&H won't ship it in the new larger bottle.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 11, 2013

Unfortunately the naming rules in organic chemistry allow the possibility for several correct names being given to the same substance. In the case of catechol the rules do not really help. Besides being referred to as 1,2-benzenediol it can also be called 1,2-dihydroxybenzene and 2-hydroxyphenol. Sometimes a one name is preferable to another to emphasize a particular aspect of the substance. For example if it is wished to point out that catechol is a substituted phenol the latter name would be used. This can be very confusing unless one has some experience and reads names carefully. One rule states that the numbers representing substitution positions must be as low as possible. Therefore it is incorrect to refer to catechol as say 3,4-bezenediol.

Since formulas cannot be patented they are carefully held trade secrets. For this reason manufactures love this particular problem with naming to protect thir products. It's all legal but still sneaky.

Question about HC 110 in new, 1litre packaging in USA

StoneNYC

timor

pdeeh

Axle

Richard S. (rich815)

DWThomas

StoneNYC

Rolfe Tessem

Alex Muir

37th Exposure

Gerald C Koch

MattKing

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Gerald C Koch

37th Exposure

JonPorter

Gerald C Koch

MattKing

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Gerald C Koch

adelorenzo

MattKing

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37th Exposure

37th Exposure

Richard S. (rich815)

donkee

Gerald C Koch

Question about HC 110 in new, 1litre packaging in USA

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