Question about HC 110 in new, 1litre packaging in USA

timor · Dec 8, 2013

Hi guys.
No more HC 110 in small, original bottles. 1 litre bottles instead. It is marked "For sale in USA", but made in Europe. It doesn't look to me like the same stuff from Rochester. Is it now the European version sold here ?

Rolfe Tessem · Dec 8, 2013

Looks to me like the same stuff, but now made by Tetenal rather than Champion as it had been previoiusly. I'm pretty sure just the packaging is different -- it is the US dilution for sure.

timor · Dec 8, 2013

Tetena, aha. Thanks for info. It doesn't looks the same, different colour and in action seems weaker. I will run another test, have to, as in my standard use (first try) this new HC110 gave me way too weak negative. Even leader was not completely black, just dark gray. I would say something is seriously off.

Christopher Walrath · Dec 8, 2013

Is it a 1:1 stock solution or some such? If it is the same, it should act the same as well I would think.

Mainecoonmaniac · Dec 8, 2013

For a while there, I thought hc-110 was gone forever. 1 bought 6 bottles from B&H of the old size. Stuff keeps forever.

L Gebhardt · Dec 8, 2013

Have you compared the instructions between the old and new?

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 8, 2013

Mainecoonmaniac said:
For a while there, I thought hc-110 was gone forever. 1 bought 6 bottles from B&H of the old size. Stuff keeps forever.

Me too. But I bought 8.

MattKing · Dec 8, 2013

If you look at the bottles (like I did when I first saw them), you will note that the quantity recommendation on the labels indicates it is the same concentration as the old, 16 ounce North American packaging, not the previous lower concentration European version.

I haven't bought any of the new stuff, because I still have a few bottles of the old stuff.

The Freestyle listing makes things clear: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5010541-Kodak-HC110-Film-Developer-1L

timor · Dec 8, 2013

Thanks for responses guys.
Well, everything written on the bottle is correct for USA version. Just the color, thickness (a bit less syrupee ) and the effectiveness seems to be off. First neg developed in the same system like with the original one came out under developed. Even leader is not normally black, just dark gray. My normal dilution is 1+49 (6ml/300ml ). Next film I will go 7.5ml and let see.

fotch · Dec 8, 2013

I never used it, however, I don't remember that it was that expensive. Maybe its me, not keeping up the the times.

timor · Dec 9, 2013

fotch said:
I never used it, however, I don't remember that it was that expensive.

No, price didn't go up, a bottle is now twice the previous size.

MattKing · Dec 9, 2013

timor said:
Thanks for responses guys.
Well, everything written on the bottle is correct for USA version. Just the color, thickness (a bit less syrupee ) and the effectiveness seems to be off. First neg developed in the same system like with the original one came out under developed. Even leader is not normally black, just dark gray. My normal dilution is 1+49 (6ml/300ml ). Next film I will go 7.5ml and let see.

I have certainly seen variation in the apparent viscosity and colour of the old HC-110. It seemed to depend on how "fresh" the bottle was.

I'd suggest another trial at 1+49 before you adjust.

timor · Dec 9, 2013

MattKing said:
I have certainly seen variation in the apparent viscosity and colour of the old HC-110. It seemed to depend on how "fresh" the bottle was.

I'd suggest another trial at 1+49 before you adjust.

I did so, just I extended the time by 17% (by my calculation). Still not very happy with the results. The stuff in the bottle I bought is for sure not American HC 110. Every single thing is different. Used developer looses totally own colour, old HC 110 was still orangy. Spots left on the table after 24 hours are not the same colour, actually it looks like there is no oxidation at all. Negative is better, but still weak with weak contrast and shadows. So far it's a crap. Next attempt will be at 1+39 with the time for 1+49. Somehow I have to figure it out.
Matt, what do you mean by "how fresh" ? Bottle I just opened. Expiry date is 09.2014

MattKing · Dec 9, 2013

The old HC-110 would slowly darken as it sat on the shelf - even before the expiry date. It may be that the old bottles were more porous than the new ones.

By the way, air doesn't cause HC-110 to darken. Air and water does. It is the moisture that causes the reaction to start.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 9, 2013

Well this isn't good news. Glad I bought a load of the older bottles from B&H when I did. Has anyone else reported issues like this with HC-110 in the new big bottles??

adelorenzo · Dec 9, 2013

I spent my first two years as a film shooter getting comfortable and somewhat competent with HC-110 for all types of B&W film, if it has changed that is really a PITA.

DWThomas · Dec 9, 2013

Hmmm -- geeze, more anxiety! I have had a new bottle on hand for a while now, but have not opened it, as I haven't quite wiped out my previous stock. Maybe I need to break it out while I still have the possibility of an A/B comparison! I would expect that with Tetenal being a reasonably solid producer of photo chemistry, the transition should be painless, but what's that old saw -- "trust but verify!" :confused:

The mixing directions, which are on the bottom layer of a three-layer label, imply it's the traditional North American concentration B=1+31, etc.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 9, 2013

L Gebhardt said:
Have you compared the instructions between the old and new?

What a curious suggestion to say that someone should read the directions.

StoneNYC · Dec 9, 2013

If it's not right I would send it back, if many bottles get returned, tentenal will correct it fast. But maybe contact then first and tell them something is wrong...

MattKing · Dec 9, 2013

StoneNYC said:
If it's not right I would send it back, if many bottles get returned, tentenal will correct it fast. But maybe contact then first and tell them something is wrong...

Tetenal (not "tentenal") don't sell this. Kodak Alaris does now, while the Kodak predecessors (Eastman, Canada, Limited, etc.) sold it before.

StoneNYC · Dec 9, 2013

MattKing said:
Tetenal (not "tentenal") don't sell this. Kodak Alaris does now, while the Kodak predecessors (Eastman, Canada, Limited, etc.) sold it before.

Sold? But wouldn't tetenal (sorry) be the ones responsible since they are mixing the chemistry? Or am I confused.

Pioneer · Dec 9, 2013

Well, I've done a quick check on-line but haven't found anything to indicate that the new developer is any different than the old developer. If it is than Kodak has a ton of work to update all their data sheets. I still have quite a bit of the old stuff but I am going to order a bottle of the new to do some comparisons. This, D-76 and Rodinal are the three legs of my developing. If one is different I need to find out ASAP.

MattKing · Dec 9, 2013

StoneNYC said:
Sold? But wouldn't tetenal (sorry) be the ones responsible since they are mixing the chemistry? Or am I confused.

Yes, you are confused!

Tetenal (most likely) are the contract manufacturers, just like Champion were (in much of the world) before the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy.

They don't sell the stuff. They just help Kodak Alaris fill orders by doing the manufacturing, packaging and labelling for them.

To draw a parallel or two, would you contact Foxconn if you had a problem with your Iphone?

And would you contact Magna International if you had a problem with the electronic fuel injectors in your Buick?

StoneNYC · Dec 9, 2013

MattKing said:
Yes, you are confused!

Tetenal (most likely) are the contract manufacturers, just like Champion were (in much of the world) before the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy.

They don't sell the stuff. They just help Kodak Alaris fill orders by doing the manufacturing, packaging and labelling for them.

To draw a parallel or two, would you contact Foxconn if you had a problem with your Iphone?

And would you contact Magna International if you had a problem with the electronic fuel injectors in your Buick?

Well I don't know what Foxconn is... BUT

I would contact Magna International with issues with my fuel injectors.

I own a 2001 Saab 9-5 Grey Sedan, most of the parts are saab or GM, only the GM parts seem to fail, so often I go to them for replacements not Saab hah!

But I get your point. Thanks

MattKing · Dec 9, 2013

StoneNYC said:
Well I don't know what Foxconn is... BUT

I would contact Magna International with issues with my fuel injectors.

I own a 2001 Saab 9-5 Grey Sedan, most of the parts are saab or GM, only the GM parts seem to fail, so often I go to them for replacements not Saab hah!

But I get your point. Thanks

Apple doesn't manufacture the Iphone - Foxconn does.

And most likely GM doesn't actually make the parts - one of thousands of separate part manufacturers do - Magna being an example of a larger one.

Question about HC 110 in new, 1litre packaging in USA

timor

Rolfe Tessem

timor

Christopher Walrath

Mainecoonmaniac

L Gebhardt

Richard S. (rich815)

MattKing

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timor

fotch

timor

MattKing

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timor

MattKing

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Richard S. (rich815)

adelorenzo

DWThomas

Gerald C Koch

StoneNYC

MattKing

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StoneNYC

Pioneer

MattKing

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StoneNYC

MattKing

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Question about HC 110 in new, 1litre packaging in USA

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