Pyrocat question

[George Collier]

I will be ordering some Pycocat in glycol for processing film (mostly Tri-x, at the moment) to be used for scanning and then digital printing. The info at the Formulary site is the same for HD and MC, except MC has the following additional:

Pyrocat-MC is slightly more energetic (faster working) than Pyrocat-HD and gives very low general stain (Base+Fog) with very long development times, making it ideal when developing negatives to the high CI needed for printing with alternative processes.

It implies that MC is everything that HD is, plus these other qualities. Is there any reason to buy HD? Why make both?
Which would you get for scanning. (I'm having trouble getting hold of the right guy at Formulary for this question.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use Pycocat HD in Glycol. No problems.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Couldn't tell you... I've been using Pyrocat-HD since 2002...mixed from scratch in distilled water, not glycol. I go through it so quickly, it would be pointless waste for me to mix it in glycol anyway (and it's REALLY expensive to get it up here!)

 

[John Wiegerink]

I will be ordering some Pycocat in glycol for processing film (mostly Tri-x, at the moment) to be used for scanning and then digital printing. The info at the Formulary site is the same for HD and MC, except MC has the following additional:

Pyrocat-MC is slightly more energetic (faster working) than Pyrocat-HD and gives very low general stain (Base+Fog) with very long development times, making it ideal when developing negatives to the high CI needed for printing with alternative processes.

It implies that MC is everything that HD is, plus these other qualities. Is there any reason to buy HD? Why make both?
Which would you get for scanning. (I'm having trouble getting hold of the right guy at Formulary for this question.

I've used Pyrocat-HD, MC and HDC, and they are all the cats meow. If and when I make up a new batch I will probably go with Pyrocat-MC, since I have way more Metol than anything else. I'm using Pyrocat- HDC in Glycol at the moment, but my developing is down, since my main darkroom is in limbo do to a move. I would just get or make whatever is the easiest for you to get. Like I said, they are all first-rate. JohnW

 

[craigclu]

I've used HD and MC. I tried to see the slight sharpness advantage of MC that a few had mentioned but I can't say I saw the difference. I've fallen back on the HD as it's a bit simpler to mix and as I get older, I find myself taking the lazier choice/approach on things that do not show a difference for me.

 

[DonW]

Sandy King the inventor of PyroCat uses HD in two tanks. First A then B. He scans the negatives and generates digital negs for all processes.

At least that was what he was doing the last time I chatted with him.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sandy King the inventor of PyroCat uses HD in two tanks. First A then B. He scans the negatives and generates digital negs for all processes.

At least that was what he was doing the last time I chatted with him.

Please tell me how to develop in two tanks. I have wanted to do that for years, but I have no information on the process.

 

[destroya]

I mix my own and have tried all the different formulas and settled on pyro-M. Just prefer the look of metol.

 

[destroya]

Please tell me how to develop in two tanks. I have wanted to do that for years, but I have no information on the process.

check out these threads

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?148458-Using-2-bath-Pyrocat

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?115751-Article-on-Two-Bath-Pyrocat

might need the wayback machine link for the last thread

 

[Sirius Glass]

check out these threads

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?148458-Using-2-bath-Pyrocat

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?115751-Article-on-Two-Bath-Pyrocat

might need the wayback machine link for the last thread

Both threads worked but the link to http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/html/TwoBathPyrocat.html lead to a hijacked page about software development. Also there seems to be several dilutions to choose from. I could use some clarity of this.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Please tell me how to develop in two tanks. I have wanted to do that for years, but I have no information on the process.

I dilute part A 1+10, and part B 1+10. To part A, I add a few drops of Photo-Flo. Time in both parts is 6:00, constant agitation.

 

[destroya]

Both threads worked but the link to http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/html/TwoBathPyrocat.html lead to a hijacked page about software development. Also there seems to be several dilutions to choose from. I could use some clarity of this.

sorry, forgot that sandy let his domain go. last I remember, he was talking about getting it going again. he does still frequent LF photo forum so you could get him a PM there

 

[destroya]

I knew I had it bookmarked someplace. here you go, two bath pryo-hd info

https://www.pyrocathd.5x4.co.uk/two-bath-pyrocat-hd/

john

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you this is great. If I want the staining I put the film back in part A before or after TF4 or TF5 fixing?

 

[Vaughn]

The article states that one gets staining with the two-bath method. Any post-development staining tends to just be an over-all stain (base fog) that just increase printing time for us alt printers without any other effect.
From article:
4. Very high acutance.

In the article published in View Camera I reviewed the use of D23 and Diafine in two-bath use. Shortly after the article came out I began experimenting with the Pyrocat-HD formula as a two-bath developer and with time I found that any of the variations of Pyrocat (HD, -M, -MC, -P, etc) work almost identically when used as two-bath formulas. Negatives developed in two-bath Pyrocat have very fine grain, very high acutance, and have good image stain.

Interesting results -- not as useful to my process, though it might be possible tweak it to produce higher contrast negatives that I prefer. One-shot Pyrocat-HD has been nice to me.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The article states that one gets staining with the two-bath method. Any post-development staining tends to just be an over-all stain (base fog) that just increase printing time for us alt printers without any other effect.

Interesting results -- not as useful to my process, though it might be possible tweak it to produce high contrast negatives that I prefer. One-shot Pyrocat-HD has been nice to me.

One advantage of the two bath pyro is the situation where you only have one roll of a rare or discontinued film so you cannot do the endless testing of every combination of time, temperature and dilution.

 

[koraks]

Thank you this is great. If I want the staining I put the film back in part A before or after TF4 or TF5 fixing?

You get the staining anyway. No need to run the film back through the developer once more. That was an urban myth that perpetuated itself for a while, but it was proven that running the film through the developer again (after fixing btw) only gives homogeneous stain and no image stain - i.e. you only get some fog which obviously does no good anyway.

 

[destroya]

You get the staining anyway. No need to run the film back through the developer once more. That was an urban myth that perpetuated itself for a while, but it was proven that running the film through the developer again (after fixing btw) only gives homogeneous stain and no image stain - i.e. you only get some fog which obviously does no good anyway.

yep, I never run the film through again and get stain. you can lose or remove the stain if you put the film in a clearing bath of sodium sulfite, so yeh, dont do that. some people said the stain was reduced if they used an older style fixer and thats why a lot of pyro users use tf-4, tf-5 and c41 fixer or other neutral PH fixer

john

 

[koraks]

Sulfite needs to be added to the developer in order to prevent stain from forming; a sulfite bath won't erase already present pyro stain.
Some say acid fixers eliminate the stain but I find this is not the case and I'm far from alone in this.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you. No second bath in Solution A.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Dare I say the obvious?

If you are scanning your film it doesn't matter which version of Pyrocat you use.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Dare I say the obvious?

If you are scanning your film it doesn't matter which version of Pyrocat you use.

No, not obvious, I use an enlarger and do not scan. Scanning for people who do not have the room in their home for a darkroom.

 

[George Collier]

Thanks for all the responses. I had a conversation yesterday with a tech at Formulary. The MC version was added to their catalogue (and production) by Sandy King for a workshop he was giving some time ago, I think on alternative printing processes. Asked why make HD, if there don't seem to be downsides to MC, he could only comment that they keep both because Sandy King wanted both for the workshop, and it just never got addressed. (maybe for folks who have used HD and don't want to risk any difference MC might present - such as activity rate?)
Sirius Glass - Reasons for scanning - I do have a darkroom and have always used them wherever I have been, but at this point, I have to accept that my skills with Pshop in managing tonal and contrast treatments to various parts of an image, in the pursuit of the final expression, cannot be approached by my darkroom skills (which I have developed since the late 50's - I have only 2 negatives I ever print with no burning or dodging.) Also, recent work with a Hahnemuhle tech and a local digital printer, have produced results that are quite comparable to my best prints with Ilford WTMG and Ethol LPD using split filter technique with an Aristo V54 lamp. I feel very strange moving to a digital output work flow, but it makes more sense for me (as much as I like printing itself.) I could go on, but that's the essence of it.

 

[DonW]

I'm totally on board with George's sentiments. I love darkroom printing but in the end it's about producing an expressive print to MY and my clients liking. I have been printing since the 60's much of it professionally. It's about the finished the print, not how you got there imho. Each to their own. I still love going into the darkroom with a favourite negative, some music playing and a good scotch. But when the rubber hits the road it's a digital workflow once the negative is dry.

 

[George Collier]

Yes, Don, re the scotch - we all have Gene Smith to thank for that custom.