Pyrocat-HD & HP5 semi-stand

[HiHoSilver]

Gents, maybe my search chops are defective, but I don't see anything on what concentration is used for PHD when doing semi-stand. 'Almost like 20 threads talk about different elements, but I haven't found one talking about concentration *and* the agitation regimen. Anyone doing 35 & 120 in a tank (patterson in my case) that uses this film/dev/method? 'Would appreciate hearing your experience. First roll w/ normal agitation is quite decent. I want to see how the semi would look. Many Thx. I appreciate your kind help.

 

[juan]

Assuming you will make standard prints, I'd start with 1-1-100 or maybe 1.5-1-100. Most 400 spend films recommend 10-minutes at 20F with normal agitation, so I'd try 15-18 minutes with a minute initial agitation and 10-seconds half way through. Some would say it's best to agitate at five minute intervals with no advantage to longer intervals.
Juan

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Website devoted to Pyrocat-HD: http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have never semi-stood roll film. I've only ever used sheet film from 4x5 and up. Anyways, I dilute Pyrocat-HD 5ml+5ml+1200ml water. This is enough to fill an 8x10 BTZS tube. 21 degrees Celcius. I usually develop for 60 minutes. I agitate at the start for 30 seconds. Then 5 seconds every 20 minutes. I always pull the film out, invert, then reinsert after I agitate. This reduces any bromide drag considerably. I don't bother presoaking the film in water.
I would use this method for roll film.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Make sure you have plenty of developer covering the film!

 

[HiHoSilver]

Andrew & Juan, Thank You!

Andrew - it was your concentration I referenced at 1:1:240. I just didn't know what, if any adjustment were needed going from tube to tank. The absence of pre-soak, I wouldn't have guessed. Thank You.

I've been all over the pyro site, and the sheet at formulary. If it does HP5, its shot at EI 200 (formulary) If it mentions semi - its w/ Delta 3200 (Sandy's & Formulary)'seems like at least one element has been missing in each reference.

As I think about your inverting the sheet film, I'm wondering/hoping the lid on a patterson tank is good enough to alternate standing right-side up, then upside-down. I would think this might be a similar move for the bromide drag - espec. for the 120 film. I'll have to test the lid & find out. My one tank's lid isn't very watertight, but the other one is.

Again, I appreciate your kind help!

 

[Peter Rockstroh01]

HiHo, what advantage do you see in your prints, when you do semi-stand development vs. normal ?
I remember seeing some difference using D-76, but with Pyro I wouldn't have thought there could be an
improvement, or is there ?

 

[HiHoSilver]

'Nuts. 'Lost some text, looking for an image that showed some of the effect I was seeking.

There are surfaces or textures that render differently in ways I like. They aren't even pictorially accurate, but a beautiful treatment. I see it most often on smooth metal that seems to show a different tone quality. As a practice, I see stand as a controversy. For straight dev., I've had my most consistent & highest quality from plain old D-76. I've not tried low agitation w/ D-76. I have tried HC-110 & R09 (rodinal one shot) with minimal agitation. Straight dev on the first use of PHD showed less grain, agitating 4 inversions every 3 min. with 45s initial and a 3m pre-soak. Dev & final wetting rinse are mixed w/ distilled water.

As you can see above, Andrew seems to use it w/ good effect. I've not seen the shot of the B-17 motor since the website change. There are two (both nice), but not the one I was seeking. I liked the first results w/ PHD, and it shows promise for further use and for trying the semi-stand. I can only say w/ confidence after a number of rolls.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

For me, there is an increase in local contrasts, and a huge, overall increase in sharpness. I like to use this technique when I have an image with lots of texture. If you have large areas of even tone like a cloudless sky, I would be very careful as mottling/unevenness may occur, especially if you employ full on stand development (I avoid it!) In these situations I always shoot a backup (I use sheet film).
The last time I used semi-stand was with 8x10, double-sided X-ray film. Side-by-side comparisons with the same image that received conventional development in Pyrocat-Hd, was no contest. The semi-stand version kicked the conventional version through the uprights, tonally and for sharpness. I believe I uploaded them over at the LF forum in the X-ray thread...

 

[HiHoSilver]

Andrew, Thank You! Its no secret your work and your thoughts are given great weight. I appreciate your taking the time on where/when/why here. Peter has also mentioned different pyro processes that seemed well worth pursuing. 'Hope to have a roll to try semi with today or tomorrow. Again, Gents, I sure appreciate your kind help.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thank you! You are very welcome. Obsidian Aqua is also an excellent developer for semi-stand development.

 

[HiHoSilver]

A roll is drying now, following method above. 2.5 each: 600, no presoak, 30 initial, 5s every 20. 'A little cooler than 21c. Massive Dev calculator recommended 68 instead of 60 to adjust.
I realize I hadn't asked about stop bath. I used plain water at same temp as Dev/fix/wash. 3 fills w/ constant aggitation for 1 min ea. 5 min. fix w/ Ilford rapid. They're drying now. 'Don't put too much weight on how they look wet, but they look sharp & lots of contrast. 'Preciate the help, gents. I'll post at least one from the roll.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I always use water with either a splash of vinegar in it or citric acid for a stop bath. Look forward to seeing your results.

 

[ann]

Am not a gent but I have used 1-1-100 with great results

 

[JW PHOTO]

Am not a gent but I have used 1-1-100 with great results

That's OK Ann, girls are allowed to use it too! I don't use Pyrocat-HD, but do use Pyrocat-MC 1.5-1.5-100 a lot. I have tried the MC version semi-stand and it worked fine, but for razor-sharp I use Jay DeFehr's Hypercat semi-stand and full-stand. This only works for certain scenes since the "edge effects" are really overpowering.

 

[HiHoSilver]

Hi Ann. Thanks for hopping in. My posts last wk were w/ 1-1-100, regular agitation. They were a bit overdeveloped, but it was clear the pyro was a strong player. I've only used PHD twice so far - one regular, one semi-stand. I'll have some work to do to get more familiar.

JWP - also thx for word on Hypercat.

'Not sure how sensitive it will be to uneven developing & at what point that happens. This got 5s agitation at 20 min. marks. It would be interesting to see if a single 5s ag at the 30 min. mark would tone down highlights any further and whether or not it starts showing the uneven effects.

 

[ritternathan]

If you are using Pyrocat-HD, start with 1:1:100 and then agitate every 3 min, but first make sure to do an initial, vigorous agitation of 90 sec. Unless it is flat light, I would use an EI of 200ish. I found with -HD that you can use 1:1:125 or 1:1:133, but I would not do this with -MC. There are instructions on the Pyrocat-hd.com website on the place to start and times.

 

[JW PHOTO]

Hi Ann. Thanks for hopping in. My posts last wk were w/ 1-1-100, regular agitation. They were a bit overdeveloped, but it was clear the pyro was a strong player. I've only used PHD twice so far - one regular, one semi-stand. I'll have some work to do to get more familiar.

JWP - also thx for word on Hypercat.

'Not sure how sensitive it will be to uneven developing & at what point that happens. This got 5s agitation at 20 min. marks. It would be interesting to see if a single 5s ag at the 30 min. mark would tone down highlights any further and whether or not it starts showing the uneven effects.

Hypercat isn't for everyone, but it does work very well when you a looking for that type of negative for that type of scene. I have also heard that Obsidian Aqua is pretty much the same as Hypercat only easier to use. I spend far to much time messing around with developers, but do enjoy it. I find myself using pyro/catechol developers for most of my films. Why? Well, I wet print and scan and to me the stained negatives make both scanning and wet printing much, much easier. They are not as easy to get a grasp of as say D-76, but are worth it for me anyway.