Pyrocat-HD For Edge Effects

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been using this developer for about 20 years, sometimes using it dilute for edge effects. I decided to take a deeper look...

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks Andrew My two conclusions were: 1.Anything other than continuous agitation produced only very marginal improvements at best

2. It is possible with the right restricted agitation to put HP5+ in the magician's hat and pull out Tri-X in its place with a reduction in price that may be modest in N America but is substantial in the U.K.

So, in the words of my fellow countryman, Fraser, in Dad's Army : "Ye're doomed Kodak, I tell ye , doomed"

Just a bit of fun, Kodakers. No need to round up the local militia for a posse

pentaxuser

 

[Sirius Glass]

So now I can see why friends do not let friends do stand development.

 

[aparat]

I've been using this developer for about 20 years, sometimes using it dilute for edge effects. I decided to take a deeper look...

This is fantastic work! I will add that I did once have these blacks dots, but thought the emulsion was faulty, as it was a many years expired film (Neopan 400). Thank you for this detailed test.

In my experience, the greatest amount of edge effects with Pyrocat HD was with Neopan 400 and TMY-2. I hope it's okay to post a photo in your thread. Here's a scan of an 8x10 print (no sharpening at any stage) taken on 35mm Neopan 400, processed in Pyrocat HD 1+1+200 semi-stand for 40 minutes. To me, this almost looks like a lot of unsharp masking applied to a digital image. The light-dark boundaries are accentuated. The skin looks terrible, but I was going for that look at the time. The full-size 300 dpi scan in in my Flicker album.

Neopan400PyrocatHD by Nick Mazur, on Flickr

 

[John Wiegerink]

Andy,
Thanks for taking the time to do this test. I can see from your results that for me, shooting medium format, stand or semi-stand is not for me. Why? Cuz, I really like the results I get using Pyrocat-HDC with normal agitation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Andy,
Thanks for taking the time to do this test. I can see from your results that for me, shooting medium format, stand or semi-stand is not for me. Why? Cuz, I really like the results I get using Pyrocat-HDC with normal agitation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Ditto for replenished XTOL.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Broadly agrees with Don Cardwell's conclusions for rodinal:

Shaping the tone curve of a Rodinal Negative

You can shape your film's tone curve by balancing exposure and development time with agitation. Agitation is used to control the highlights of a negative. More agitation raises the highlight density, less agitation lowers highlight density...

www.photrio.com

 

[John Wiegerink]

Ditto for replenished XTOL.

Yes, I just mixed up another batch of Xtol-R (actually Adox xt-3). My other batch of Xtol-R was still working, but after 6+ years it was time for a new batch. Xtol-R and Pyrocat-HDC are my two main developers and I find I can't fault either one.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The takeaway for me after doing this, the 3 min rest negative is pretty much identical (tonally) to the continuous agitation negative, with added sharpness. Longer rest periods (stand) only served to distort tonalities, especially mid tones (which might be okay under certain circumstances/appropriate subject matter, lighting, etc). Stand is not for me. However, I would like to see how other films react to semi-stand, such as Adox CMS 20, TMY-2, Acros. My test has only been with HP5. Finally, I will be exploring dilute Pyrocat-HD and continuous agitation. I've been nursing covid since the 11th, so I haven't really felt like doing much. Even editing is a pain! Even typing this is tiresome!

@Sirius Glass I don't have any friends LOL! Xtol-R is my other main developer. Does that make us friends now?
@Alan Johnson thank you for the link!
@aparat not problem! I appreciate your input!
@pentaxuser I think in the right hands, in the right situation/subject matter, etc. stand works... I won't be using stand, though, as I find it just too harsh (with HP5 anyway). HP5 acting like Tri-X was only a personal opinion (although the curves agree with me)... I can still get somewhat of a Tri-X look even if I just push process HP5, say at 1600 (with better grain).

I'm hungry. I want to eat a doughnut!

 

[John Wiegerink]

The takeaway for me after doing this, the 3 min rest negative is pretty much identical (tonally) to the continuous agitation negative, with added sharpness. Longer rest periods (stand) only served to distort tonalities, especially mid tones (which might be okay under certain circumstances/appropriate subject matter, lighting, etc). Stand is not for me. However, I would like to see how other films react to semi-stand, such as Adox CMS 20, TMY-2, Acros. My test has only been with HP5. Finally, I will be exploring dilute Pyrocat-HD and continuous agitation. I've been nursing covid since the 11th, so I haven't really felt like doing much. Even editing is a pain! Even typing this is tiresome!

@Sirius Glass I don't have any friends LOL! Xtol-R is my other main developer. Does that make us friends now?
@Alan Johnson thank you for the link!
@aparat not problem! I appreciate your input!
@pentaxuser I think in the right hands, in the right situation/subject matter, etc. stand works... I won't be using stand, though, as I find it just too harsh (with HP5 anyway). HP5 acting like Tri-X was only a personal opinion (although the curves agree with me)... I can still get somewhat of a Tri-X look even if I just push process HP5, say at 1600 (with better grain).

I'm hungry. I want to eat a doughnut!

Andy,
Take care of yourself and I hope you shake that bug fast. Oh, and have two donuts if you like, you earned it.

 

[MattKing]

Yes Andy - take care!
How did Covid know you were on Spring Break?

 

[pentaxuser]

Andrew, I hope you are improving day by day but I found it to be a slow process so patience is required. If you get any spots as I did or more accurately in my case a rash of red spots on both front and back of the upper body, take comfort from the fact that it is not the donuts causing them

pentaxuser

 

[Sirius Glass]

The takeaway for me after doing this, the 3 min rest negative is pretty much identical (tonally) to the continuous agitation negative, with added sharpness. Longer rest periods (stand) only served to distort tonalities, especially mid tones (which might be okay under certain circumstances/appropriate subject matter, lighting, etc). Stand is not for me. However, I would like to see how other films react to semi-stand, such as Adox CMS 20, TMY-2, Acros. My test has only been with HP5. Finally, I will be exploring dilute Pyrocat-HD and continuous agitation. I've been nursing covid since the 11th, so I haven't really felt like doing much. Even editing is a pain! Even typing this is tiresome!

@Sirius Glass I don't have any friends LOL! Xtol-R is my other main developer. Does that make us friends now?
@Alan Johnson thank you for the link!
@aparat not problem! I appreciate your input!
@pentaxuser I think in the right hands, in the right situation/subject matter, etc. stand works... I won't be using stand, though, as I find it just too harsh (with HP5 anyway). HP5 acting like Tri-X was only a personal opinion (although the curves agree with me)... I can still get somewhat of a Tri-X look even if I just push process HP5, say at 1600 (with better grain).

I'm hungry. I want to eat a doughnut!

Yes
But donuts drive up the glucose so be careful eating them.

 

[aparat]

Hang in there. I hope you get well soon.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thanks everyone!

 

[albada]

The skin looks terrible, but I was going for that look at the time.

The skin looks terrible only if you wanted a soft look. But if you wanted to shout "masculine" in this photo, which would be appropriate for the subject matter, the grain and texture of the skin look perfect.

Mark

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes
But donuts drive up the glucose so be careful eating them.

Thank you for your concern! I had only been consuming one per week... although I have to admit... to commemorate the start of Spring Break, I ate three on the 11th . I am now paying for my grievous sin.
Feeling much better today, though. Just received an email from Keith at Custom Bellows. He's finished constructing the bellows for my 14x17! No more sticking my arm up to my elbow in through the front standard to pull out kinks and bumps... (like a vet tending to a farmer's constipated cow through the back standard on All Creatures Great and Small!) I can't wait to get back out there with that beast (the camera, not the cow!) Cheers everyone!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you for your concern! I had only been consuming one per week... although I have to admit... to commemorate the start of Spring Break, I ate three on the 11th . I am now paying for my grievous sin.
Feeling much better today, though. Just received an email from Keith at Custom Bellows. He's finished constructing the bellows for my 14x17! No more sticking my arm up to my elbow in through the front standard to pull out kinks and bumps... (like a vet tending to a farmer's constipated cow through the back standard on All Creatures Great and Small!) I can't wait to get back out there with that beast (the camera, not the cow!) Cheers everyone!

One should wear long plastic gloves when performing such procedures, the cows like it better too. No bull.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

One should wear long plastic gloves when performing such procedures, the cows like it better too. No bull.

So the rubber dish gloves I have by the sink won't do, eh?

 

[Sirius Glass]

So the rubber dish gloves I have by the sink won't do, eh?

Only if they go all the way up to your arm pits. Otherwise its the pits.

 

[john_s]

I've been using this developer for about 20 years, sometimes using it dilute for edge effects. I decided to take a deeper look...

The wonky curves for extreme minimal agitation are weird. I could understand a curve going in a way that you didn't want, but why the up and down undulations?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The wonky curves for extreme minimal agitation are weird. I could understand a curve going in a way that you didn't want, but why the up and down undulations?

Especially the midtones. HP5, like most 400 speed films, have two emulsions. I believe one is to deal with high contrast, the other for low contrast (I could be wrong and hopefully someone will correct me)... I've always wondered where these two curves cross over each other... at the mid tones? If so, that could be the reason for the severe compression there. What I do know is the longer the film is left to rest, in dilute Pyrocat-HD, the more distorted/flattened/compressed the midtones become. I imagine other films react this way but I won't know until I try them. How will a single emulsion films like Delta 100, respond. Different grain technology than HP5. I'll be giving TMY a go as well...