Processing 4x5 In Stainless Steel Tanks?

[DH_Studio]

Hi everyone,

Wanted to see if anyone processes sheet film in quart/liter sized stainless steel tanks? I've been searching for reels that would hold 4x5 and am only finding them for Paterson-type tanks, not for SS. Not sure if that exists or if for some reason that isn't recommended. If anyone has firsthand experience doing so or knows of a reel or holder that can fit that size tank (or even the smaller size that holds two rolls of 35mm) and could drop a link it would be greatly appreciated. I need something I can load in my dark bag, and would love to not have to purchase a whole new system.

I've seen the "taco method" but only with plastic tanks with a center column that seems to keep the sheets from drifting all over the place in the tank. Not sure that would work with SS?

I saw one seller - "Black and White King 4x5 Reels" - but can't find them on Freestyle or B+H - and they seem to ship from China. Wondering if there are any other solutions.

Thank you!

 

[Steve Goldstein]

The old Nikor tanks are relatively common on eBay. The reel holds 12 sheets. Here's a link to one that sold recently:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-NI...720924?hash=item5b870bcadc:g:52MAAOSwU-lgDMux

The tank diameter is larger than the standard quart tanks - I can’t remember if it’s 40 or 50 US fluid ounces. I've never used it myself as I prefer tray processing.

 

[Augied]

I don't think that there's an off the shelf option for this. There are a few that use larger diameter steel tanks, but nothing for the standard 2x120 size.

I designed a scaled down, 3d printed version of the Mod54 for steel tanks. It can only hold 4 sheets (vs 6 for the Mod54) but the center column is larger so it only needs 500ml of liquid. I'm not comfortable posting the design publicly due to patent infringement, but if you message me privately, I might be convinced to share.

 

[Alan9940]

I'm not aware of any 4x5 SS reel that will fit standard Nikkor-style tanks used for 120 roll film. I have the B&W King tank and have been very satisfied with it.

 

[removed account4]

I always wanted to use those Nikor tanks and reels but never was able to find them. eBay makes it ez to find cool stuff like that ! if you have the ability to process film in total darkness you might consider getting food storage containers, not ones that look like trays but tall ones. Faux-tupperware type stuff I used to have I think they were able to contain 2 quarts and they fit standard single 4x5 film hangers perfectly. it takes a little bit of learning the method of processing with tanks/hangers ( also referred to as "deep tank" in processing literature ) but worth it if you can do it.. the hangers are affordable and places like the dollar store or similar places have containers for as the birds sing -- cheep cheep.
have fun !
John

ps. if you do the deep tank route read literature about seasoning your developer, it is / was a common practice to take the sting/hella-contrast out of some developers. then keep an eye on your capacities and replenish. when you have worked your developer to it's limit, you leave 1/3 the tank in to season the next batch, its ez-pz..

 

[BAC1967]

I used to just place 2 sheets in a stainless tank that holds 4 35mm reels. I put them in facing each other but curving away from each other. As long as your not aggressive with agitation they stay in place. Sometimes the back of the film ended up against the tank wall but I never had them overlap to where the emulsion was covered. I don’t need to do that anymore since I found the Nikor 4X5 tank on eBay cheap, I think the seller may have thought it was a regular developing tank. It’s easy to use plus it’s adjustable so I can develop 9x12cm film as well.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The Nikor tanks, and the the current production B&W King stainless tank (holds 10 sheets) both take a little over a liter; they're larger diameter and a little taller than a 2x120 stainless tank (though I have a pair of 220 reels for my large Nikor, for which I've never had the 4x5 cage).

 

[DH_Studio]

The old Nikor tanks are relatively common on eBay. The reel holds 12 sheets. Here's a link to one that sold recently:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-NI...720924?hash=item5b870bcadc:g:52MAAOSwU-lgDMux

I've never used it myself as I prefer tray processing.

Thanks, Steve. I think (despite my original post) I'm gonna try the slim Stearman Press SP-445 tank.

 

[Alan9940]

Thanks, Steve. I think (despite my original post) I'm gonna try the slim Stearman Press SP-445 tank.

And, you'll learn some new words to go along with the new tank! Seriously, you might do a bit of research on the Stearman tank before buying; many, many posts regarding scratched film, uneven development, leaking, faint shadow images of the holders on your film, etc. Not trying to start an argument here...for fact, I own one (from the Kickstarter campaign)...I'm simply suggesting you look into it a bit to make sure it, at least, has the potential to work well for you.

 

[Rudolf Karachun]

Hi everyone,

Wanted to see if anyone processes sheet film in quart/liter sized stainless steel tanks? I've been searching for reels that would hold 4x5 and am only finding them for Paterson-type tanks, not for SS. Not sure if that exists or if for some reason that isn't recommended. If anyone has firsthand experience doing so or knows of a reel or holder that can fit that size tank (or even the smaller size that holds two rolls of 35mm) and could drop a link it would be greatly appreciated. I need something I can load in my dark bag, and would love to not have to purchase a whole new system.

I've seen the "taco method" but only with plastic tanks with a center column that seems to keep the sheets from drifting all over the place in the tank. Not sure that would work with SS?

I saw one seller - "Black and White King 4x5 Reels" - but can't find them on Freestyle or B+H - and they seem to ship from China. Wondering if there are any other solutions.

Thank you!

B&W King is a very good tank, and in my opinion better then the old Nikor. I have both. The maker sell them only on e-bay and shipping very fast and affordable. The maker is a very responsible and nice person.

 

[BradS]

The old Nikor tanks are relatively common on eBay. The reel holds 12 sheets. Here's a link to one that sold recently:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-NI...720924?hash=item5b870bcadc:g:52MAAOSwU-lgDMux

The tank diameter is larger than the standard quart tanks - I can’t remember if it’s 40 or 50 US fluid ounces. I've never used it myself as I prefer tray processing.

these Nikor tanks are the cat’s ass!

 

[DH_Studio]

And, you'll learn some new words to go along with the new tank! Seriously, you might do a bit of research on the Stearman tank before buying; many, many posts regarding scratched film, uneven development, leaking, faint shadow images of the holders on your film, etc. Not trying to start an argument here...for fact, I own one (from the Kickstarter campaign)...I'm simply suggesting you look into it a bit to make sure it, at least, has the potential to work well for you.

Oh crap! Really?! I read overwhelmingly positive reviews, I know they're on their 4th version of this design, was Kickstarter for version 1? I guess I'll start with some test shots and see how it goes. I like that they only use 16 ounces of chemistry for 4 sheets, but not enough that I want to risk damaging my film, that's for sure. I ordered from B&H so I'll start experimenting right away to see if I need to send it back.

I just did find a Photrio post about Stearman issues...might have been a little impulsive in my rush to get processing my sheet film. Going to keep digging and see what I can find.

Thanks for the warning, I appreciate it.

 

[DH_Studio]

these Nikor tanks are the cat’s ass!

I'm not aware of any 4x5 SS reel that will fit standard Nikkor-style tanks used for 120 roll film. I have the B&W King tank and have been very satisfied with it.

Thanks, Alan. The B+W King is going to be my next purchase if the Stearman Press SP-445 I ordered yesterday doesn't work for me.

 

[DH_Studio]

B&W King is a very good tank, and in my opinion better then the old Nikor. I have both. The maker sell them only on e-bay and shipping very fast and affordable. The maker is a very responsible and nice person.

Thanks for the recommendation, that's going to be my next purchase if what I ordered doesn't do the trick (the SP-445).

 

[Alan9940]

Oh crap! Really?! I read overwhelmingly positive reviews, I know they're on their 4th version of this design, was Kickstarter for version 1? I guess I'll start with some test shots and see how it goes. I like that they only use 16 ounces of chemistry for 4 sheets, but not enough that I want to risk damaging my film, that's for sure. I ordered from B&H so I'll start experimenting right away to see if I need to send it back.

I just did find a Photrio post about Stearman issues...might have been a little impulsive in my rush to get processing my sheet film. Going to keep digging and see what I can find.

Thanks for the warning, I appreciate it.

Yeah, many folks get along fine with the Stearman tank and think it's wonderful; it just didn't work out so well for me. It might be great for you! The "versions" are just the holder redesigns since the original product. I have v1, v3, and v4. Why so many? Well, the v1 holders came with the original Kickstarter tank and the v3/v4 purchases was me trying to eliminate development issues I had. I still use it for testing purposes, but I wouldn't trust "real" work with that tank. Again, let me re-state that this has been my experience.

 

[DH_Studio]

Thank you, everyone, for the info. Very helpful, as always!

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you're willing to go to a replenished developer (for economy) or mix your own developer (another kind of economy), I'm very happy with my Yankee Agitank since I learned the best way to agitate (by rocking end to end). I get even development, and though it needs 1630 ml to cover 4x5, my replenishment is the same, by film area, as it would be in a smaller tank. Holds up to 12 sheets. Fills and drains as fast as a Paterson. Bakelite, so if you drop it, it's toast, but excellent for any sheet size up to 4x5.

 

[Lissah]

I don't think that there's an off the shelf option for this. There are a few that use larger diameter steel tanks, but nothing for the standard 2x120 size.

I designed a scaled down, 3d printed version of the Mod54 for steel tanks. It can only hold 4 sheets (vs 6 for the Mod54) but the center column is larger so it only needs 500ml of liquid. I'm not comfortable posting the design publicly due to patent infringement, but if you message me privately, I might be convinced to share.

I’m brand new to phototrio and am getting back into the darkroom after an almost 15 year hiatus. I’ve been looking for a reel to develop 4x5 that will work with my current tanks (stainless) - and I can’t figure out how to message you directly! I would love love love to use your design to make a single tank for myself if possible…

 

[wiltw]

Classically...4x5 hangers like these

https://www.etsy.com/listing/955889181/kodak-4x5-large-format-film-hangers-set?click_key=5f0d8cee61d8549de0eda8dda63c3e1e85061ac0:955889181&click_sum=14214ae5&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=4x5+film+hangers&ref=sr_gallery-1-5​

used in tanks like this

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63623-REG/Yankee_YAUF45_Utility_Developing_Tank_for.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI:514&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw9qOBhC-ARIsAG-rdn6EyMTEHVPsV6PtKmDYW2RmtsporqrL5-tYK4S1Cm3Lrfrdh2opMmkaAjv8EALw_wcB​

made to fit each other

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4032727624...U3QOiZhXJZR8GcRS24IWu8C5C-KhVdIUaAuaLEALw_wcB​

 

[Lissah]

I have the hangers, just not the tanks. I have developed 4x5 this way and while it’s annoying it gets the job done. What I don’t have now that I did have then is the 100% light tight room. This looking for a roll tank jack.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I have the 4x5 B/W King tank, and recommend it.
It takes 1050ml of solution.
I use Rodinal...21ml of concentrate for 1:50, 42ml for 1:25. Very economical.
I alternate between rotary and inversion agitation.

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you shoot a lot, the Yankee Agitank (about $40 new from Freestyle or B&H -- order a box of film with it and get free shipping from B&H) is actually more economical than most methods of developing sheet film in a round tank. I can process up to 12 sheets in 1.63 L (56 ounces) of liquid. That's a little less solution per roll equivalent than a stainless tank with 120, and only a little more than double loading Paterson type reels. The bad news is, you use the same amount of solution for a single sheet (because they're standing vertically like roll film on a reel).

My solution has been to use replenished developer, so I only "pay for" the amount of actual film loaded in the tank -- a single sheet still takes 1.63 L of solution (so I have a 2 L tank solution bottle), but only wants 17.5 ml of replenisher with Xtol.

 

[Lissah]

I have the 4x5 B/W King tank, and recommend it.
It takes 1050ml of solution.
I use Rodinal...21ml of concentrate for 1:50, 42ml for 1:25. Very economical.
I alternate between rotary and inversion agitation.

This is essentially the type of thing I've been looking for but I’m struggling to find a purchase option for this. Am I missing something or are they not currently distributing?

 

[Donald Qualls]

B&W King sells on eBay, and may also have his own web site. He works in and ships from Hong Kong, and is a member here (though I don't know how often he checks in). His production rate is limited, he seems to at least assemble the cages by hand, may produce everything himself with small shop methods.

 

[Lissah]

If you shoot a lot, the Yankee Agitank (about $40 new from Freestyle or B&H -- order a box of film with it and get free shipping from B&H) is actually more economical than most methods of developing sheet film in a round tank. I can process up to 12 sheets in 1.63 L (56 ounces) of liquid. That's a little less solution per roll equivalent than a stainless tank with 120, and only a little more than double loading Paterson type reels. The bad news is, you use the same amount of solution for a single sheet (because they're standing vertically like roll film on a reel).

My solution has been to use replenished developer, so I only "pay for" the amount of actual film loaded in the tank -- a single sheet still takes 1.63 L of solution (so I have a 2 L tank solution bottle), but only wants 17.5 ml of replenisher with Xtol.

I saw these but the attached reviews concerned me.. specifically the comments about it not being liquid tight so no inversion and the film getting crushed because the grooves aren’t deep enough. Have you experienced any of this?