Problem with Bristol Cameras - eventually resolved.

[Agulliver]

Caveat....perhaps I've just had one bad experience. I've not used these people before so this is just one anecdote. But I feel I should warn people.

Bristol Cameras (bristolcameras.co.uk and a physical shop in Bristol) offer a very good range of bulk 35mm film among other useful items. Back in June I ordered 100 feet of Ilford Pan 400 as they are one of the few UK suppliers stocking this film. I was prepared to wait a while as I noted it was "out of stock" and I didn't need the film until late September.

By the time late August came around, I was getting a bit concerned. Tried to email them....the email address they used to confirm my order is of the "no reply" variety. There is no email address with which to contact them and no form on their website. There are two phone numbers given. I strongly prefer to do things in writing, but on 22 August I called them anyway. The person I spoke to did note that long delay in my order but said they were due a delivery from Ilford and they'd email me soon.

Another week passed and I heard nothing so I called again, to be told they'd had said delivery but whoever I was talking to didn't know if any Pan 400 100' rolls were included. They'd get back to me. To their credit, on 2 September I received an email (again from an address that is "no reply") saying that they were unable to obtain any Pan 400 and they would cancel my order and process a refund.

Since 2 September I have phoned them three times asking about my refund. First time I was told that the person who can process that was out for a couple of days but it would happen soon. Second time I was told "Hmm, I don't know why you haven't been refunded" and similar the third time. Each time they mention some external organisation who handle all their payments and refunds, so this clearly isn't something they can do in the shop.

As of 27 September I have no film, they still have my money and I have been effectively forced into buying something more expensive elsewhere at short notice for this coming weekend.

Personally I will not be using Bristol Cameras again. YMMV.

 

[pentaxuser]

My sympathies. The problem with any of the retailers that you cannot visit is that it is impossible to assess what they are like from a website and the "stick to those you know" maxim fails if none have the stock you need

pentaxuser

 

[gone]

Sorry to hear that. It's a good idea to post problems like this for others.

I had a few experiences w/ East Coast photo stores that I could have done without. If it's not at Freestyle and it's costly, I probably don't need it. eBay and other photo places are fine for small things, but I do stay w/ just one supplier. It's solved a lot of issues, never had any problems w/ anything really.

 

[Nitroplait]

Don't know if UK have maintained some of the EU consumer laws, but if so, the seller has 30 days to deliver. If not, you can reverse the charges through your bank if you used a credit/debit card.

 

[Agulliver]

Oh I used a credit card (rather than debit) so I can claim it back. I'm just warning people.

 

[Agulliver]

Another week, another phone call. This time the excuse is that the person in the shop has to wait for a director to be in to authorise a refund. Shouldn't it have been authorised on 2nd September when it was cancelled by them? And apparently they've changed banks and that's affected their refund procedure. First I've heard of this. You'd think they'd tell people that.

[side note, my wife works as a finance officer and changing banks should be virtually seamless, she tells me].

So I've given my card details again, and am promised a refund "in five working days". Now....I can transfer funds across the bloody Atlantic ocean in minutes. Why can't they issue a refund in a similar timeframe? I wasn't in any more of a mood to argue, and in any case doubt that I would have got a sensible response.

I looked them up on Google today only to find lots of negative Google reviews. It seems that if you visit the physical shop or order something that is genuinely in stock, things are fine. They've been in business a long time and aren't deliberately being crooks. But if something goes wrong, you're screwed.

Beware.

 

[BrianShaw]

Have you contacted your credit card company to dispute the charge?

Also, have you verified that it’s a real charge and not an “authorization “? I recently bought something that was out of stock and despite getting verification that the order was cancelled, the credit card authorization remains with an “in progress” state. I’m assuming that the state will eventually change to “timed out” at some point.

 

[AgX]

Don't know if UK have maintained some of the EU consumer laws, but if so, the seller has 30 days to deliver.

In case you refer to generic EU laws: Not in Germany. Here the seller legally has to state a delivery period, if the buyer accepts, this is the period in which the product has to be delivered. The longer that period, the longer a 2nd period has to be a buyer has to yield in case not being delivered in the original period.

 

[snusmumriken]

In case you refer to generic EU laws: Not in Germany. Here the seller legally has to state a delivery period, if the buyer accepts, this is the period in which the product has to be delivered. The longer that period, the longer a 2nd period has to be a buyer has to yield in case not being delivered in the original period.

Yeh, but don't forget that the UK has abandoned sensible EU laws. Heaven only knows what rights a UK customer has now.

Hats off to Germany, though, for coping with the post-Brexit mess: I have made several purchases from German companies since Brexit, all expedited swiftly and painlessly as if we were still in a single market.

Maybe you can tell, I didn't vote for Brexit.

 

[Sirius Glass]

In case you refer to generic EU laws: Not in Germany. Here the seller legally has to state a delivery period, if the buyer accepts, this is the period in which the product has to be delivered. The longer that period, the longer a 2nd period has to be a buyer has to yield in case not being delivered in the original period.

In the US the seller must ship within a specified time period or they cannot charge the card. If the delivery takes longer than the time period the funds must be refunded or the seller has to request approval to continue the sale.

 

[AgX]

Then you have it about how the credit card firms handles the matter, not about a legal thing. Here in Germany credit cards have a much lesser spread. People pay by other means, but then lack any coverage offered by such firms.

 

[Ian Grant]

Another week, another phone call. This time the excuse is that the person in the shop has to wait for a director to be in to authorise a refund. Shouldn't it have been authorised on 2nd September when it was cancelled by them? And apparently they've changed banks and that's affected their refund procedure. First I've heard of this. You'd think they'd tell people that.

[side note, my wife works as a finance officer and changing banks should be virtually seamless, she tells me].

So I've given my card details again, and am promised a refund "in five working days". Now....I can transfer funds across the bloody Atlantic ocean in minutes. Why can't they issue a refund in a similar timeframe? I wasn't in any more of a mood to argue, and in any case doubt that I would have got a sensible response.

I looked them up on Google today only to find lots of negative Google reviews. It seems that if you visit the physical shop or order something that is genuinely in stock, things are fine. They've been in business a long time and aren't deliberately being crooks. But if something goes wrong, you're screwed.

Beware.

Changing banks seamlessly, that's a Joke, not if you are a business with a lot of transactions, and employees. That's personal experience.

Ian

 

[Agulliver]

Changing banks seamlessly, that's a Joke, not if you are a business with a lot of transactions, and employees. That's personal experience.

Ian

My wife is finance officer for a business with lots of transactions and employees. They changed banks last year, and she is one of the team responsible for payments in and out....including payments to suppliers, from clients and the payroll. Was pretty seamless. Certainly nothing major like being unable to process refunds for transactions made before the switch to the new bank. That is basic stuff.

 

[foc]

@Agulliver Maybe try making a small claim (the small claims court).

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

Nothing like the threat of litigation to focus the mind and it is always easier to instigate and harder to defend.

 

[Agulliver]

Yeh, but don't forget that the UK has abandoned sensible EU laws. Heaven only knows what rights a UK customer has now.

Hats off to Germany, though, for coping with the post-Brexit mess: I have made several purchases from German companies since Brexit, all expedited swiftly and painlessly as if we were still in a single market.

Maybe you can tell, I didn't vote for Brexit.

Until and unless the UK repeals the EU laws....they all still apply. Currently they all still apply as none has been repealed.

 

[Agulliver]

@Agulliver Maybe try making a small claim (the small claims court).

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

Nothing like the threat of litigation to focus the mind and it is always easier to instigate and harder to defend.

I may threaten that if I need to phone again. Or I can just take it up with the credit card company....with whom I've been for nearly 30 years. Though proving things is difficult as Bristol Cameras don't discuss anything by email....only on the phone....another reason I don't trust them.

 

[Agulliver]

Have you contacted your credit card company to dispute the charge?

Also, have you verified that it’s a real charge and not an “authorization “? I recently bought something that was out of stock and despite getting verification that the order was cancelled, the credit card authorization remains with an “in progress” state. I’m assuming that the state will eventually change to “timed out” at some point.

Oh it's a real charge, £72 debited from my account in June the day I placed the order. As of this evening, no refund though my account at bristolcameras.co.uk finally says a refund has been applied.

It's funny. As a private individual I can send a payment almost anywhere in the world and it arrives within minutes. I recently paid a company in Missouri from the comfort of my English armchair by clicking a few buttons in my online banking app....and the funds appeared in their account three minutes later. My wife frequently makes Faster payments between UK banks of many thousands of pounds....achieved in seconds. But Bristol Cameras says the refund takes four working days due to the bank.

 

[BrianShaw]

That kind of refund delay is not uncommon in the US either. As you say… it really makes no sense. I hope it shows up in your account soon.

 

[Agulliver]

That kind of refund delay is not uncommon in the US either. As you say… it really makes no sense. I hope it shows up in your account soon.

It's highly unusual here. On the occasions where I've asked a retailer for a refund it's often there before the phone call is finished. Back in the 80s and 90s I can remember interrogating my bank account via the ATM and finding that refunds appeared same or next day. We have something called BACS here which has electronically linked all UK banks since the mid 1960s. And more recently facilities for Faster payments have been made available to small businesses and individuals *at zero cost*. There's no excuse really. Except the chap this time told me it would need a company director to authorise the refund. Dude, you told me nearly a month ago you can't get hold of the product I ordered and that a refund was authorised.

Still nothing but I'll wait a few working days just in case their bank is stuck in the 1950s.

I'll update here by the end of next week, either with news of a refund or news of my next step.

At least they've taken Ilford Pan 400 off their website.

 

[BobUK]

I am surprised that they are falling by the wayside.
In the past my brother and I have had quite a bit of equipment from them, cameras, film, darkroom items and astronomy equipment. All delivered with no problems. (No connection.)

After looking at the internet, this does not seem to be an isolated incident with them.

Bristolcameras is rated "Excellent" with 4.3 / 5 on Trustpilot

Do you agree with Bristolcameras's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 1,185 customers have already said.

uk.trustpilot.com

I don't know if the link is appropriate here, moderators feel free to amend.

It makes me think twice about purchasing from them after reading the above.
If I do, it will be with Credit Card and all the consumer protection it gives.

 

[Arcadia4]

If you paid by credit card then sect 75 protection which makes the credit card company also liable for delivery of the goods, however it only applies for a total order of over £100 value. However if you get no action from bristol cameras and your card company agree youve got a valid claim then under ‘chargeback’ they can still reverse the charge. Note theres a time limit for this of 120 days, set by visa/mastercard from when you are first aware of the issue. Failing all that theres the small claims court which can be done online.

I ordered some goods from Paterson direct earlier this year. I got a couple of ‘we will get back to you‘ over several months but no goods and no refund and i only realised the time limit then, so that went down to experience.

Ive also used bristol cameras, a few times, generally ok, but on an occassion where theyd sold out of short dated stock (so not a clever ordering system) i swapped the order but it took a month and two phone calls partly due to their payment system

 

[benjiboy]

There are some retailing practices that were illegal in the E.U even when we were a member that were common practice in British supermarkets, for example " buy one get one free" the E.U law said that if the retailer could sell the product cheaper it should be reflected in the price of a single item.

 

[snusmumriken]

There are some retailing practices that were illegal in the E.U even when we were a member that were common practice in British supermarkets, for example " buy one get one free" the E.U law said that if the retailer could sell the product cheaper it should be reflected in the price of a single item.

So is that still the legal situation in the UK?

 

[benjiboy]

I can't say I have seen it lately, but since the pandemic I have had all my shopping delivered.

 

[benjiboy]

So is that still the legal situation in the UK?

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I see it is still going on, and since we are not still in the E.U I assume it is now legal, but I don't know for certain.