Printing color at home.....

[1kgcoffee]

pre-wash is not needed with drums in my experience. The problem with trays is that the chemicals will oxidize fast. Also you need really good ventilation especially with blix.

To do test strips simply use a film developing tank and swish the solution around - no roller needed. I guess it's a matter of taste though.

 

[mshchem]

No argument that RA4 is still in wide use . It's cheap and beautiful!

The hard facts are that you may, in the not to distant future, must be prepared to buy paper in rolls, and chemistry in quantity online. I recently tried to find a roll of 10 inch wide black and white rc paper for making pan prints. Minimum order from Ilford/ B&H equates to 1 mile of 10 inch wide paper (case of 20 250 foot rolls) You can buy single rolls of Ilford panchromatic black and white (for RGB laser printers) in certain sizes. There simply isn't a market for ordinary multi grade paper in those sizes.

I love to print color enlargements. In the last couple years the generic colortone papers that were offered by Freestyle and B&H have disappeared ,leaving only Fuji in cut sheets.

To get rolls of Kodak papers you can end up spending hundreds of dollars. The rolls are sold in case quantities. I've been able to buy some partial rolls of Kodak 12 inch wide from my friend who has a store. Even with a monopoly on RA 4 high quality printing he has to watch that the paper doesn't get to old.

Minilab prints can be horrible. A proper optical print is amazing. I don't have access to high quality RGB laser prints, but I know from what I've seen that it's beautiful .

It's just a matter of what you want to spend precious time and money on. If you plan to print dozens and dozens of enlargements, from film, in a finite period of time, or you are just curious RA4 is a blast.

Probably the best thing about RA4 (for now) is a box of 8x10 Crystal Archive paper and 5 liters of chemistry cost less, a lot less, then ink jet cartridges for my Canon inkjet printer. I finally gave up on an Epson printer with 8 cartridge ultra wiz bang, I recycled it.

Modern day problems

 

[DREW WILEY]

I'm allergic to RA4, so I load the drums in the darkroom, then use a customized cart outdoors equipped with a roller system, drain etc. It handles up to 30X40 inch drums. I previously used it for Ciba processing. I mostly do large format shooting, and like the more seamless hues and greater detail of true film prints versus inkjet, which often seems to me to look like pasted-on color, which one would logically expect from relatively opaque inks. Nice for some images; but I prefer darkroom work
anyway.

 

[RPC]

pre-wash is not needed with drums in my experience. The problem with trays is that the chemicals will oxidize fast. Also you need really good ventilation especially with blix.

Many here in the past have reported streaks with drums unless a pre-wet and stop bath was used. They are recommended in the literature. It may be worse with some drums than others.

The Kodak RA-RT Developer/Replenisher has excellent oxidation protection. I have re-used it through several printing sessions with excellent results. That is why I say I can get the same capacity, if not more, than those who use developer one-shot in drums.

EDIT: I should add that between sessions I pour the developer back into a glass, sealed bottle, not leave it in the tray.

Some are sensitive to these chemicals but IIRC the MSDS reports low-inhalation hazard, but yes, good ventilation is recommended.

 

[CMoore]

Anybody use either of these two papers.?.......

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulracophpa8x6.html

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/300shmispacr.html

 

[mshchem]

I'm allergic to RA4, so I load the drums in the darkroom, then use a customized cart outdoors equipped with a roller system, drain etc. It handles up to 30X40 inch drums. I previously used it for Ciba processing. I mostly do large format shooting, and like the more seamless hues and greater detail of true film prints versus inkjet, which often seems to me to look like pasted-on color, which one would logically expect from relatively opaque inks. Nice for some images; but I prefer darkroom work
anyway.

I'm with you. I have not been exposed to enough photo chemicals to become sensitized. I have a similar issue with polyurethane. My 8x10 enlarger is VC cold light so no 30 x 40s for me. The only tubes I have ever seen that big are for the old Kodak tube, not drum, machine .
16 x 20 s from 4x5 negatives are sure nice.

 

[mshchem]

Anybody use either of these two papers.?.......

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulracophpa8x6.html

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/300shmispacr.html

No, I've heard it's Kodak Royal amateur paper. I would be concerned about date on anything not coming from Alaris or Fuji. But that's just me.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I got sensitized to amines in industrial epoxies. Both Ciba bleach and RA4 blix contain a bit of amines, though my sensitivity to these has mitigated somewhat due to
far less exposure to the kinds of industrial coatings which have largely been phased out in recent decades. Still, it's a matter of cumulative exposure until a threshold
is reached. With me, it takes forms of respiratory irritation which makes me far more susceptible than usual to colds, etc. But I've known a couple of commercial lab owners who couldn't even walk into their own building where RA4 was being used without breaking out in hives.

 

[mshchem]

I got sensitized to amines in industrial epoxies. Both Ciba bleach and RA4 blix contain a bit of amines, though my sensitivity to these has mitigated somewhat due to
far less exposure to the kinds of industrial coatings which have largely been phased out in recent decades. Still, it's a matter of cumulative exposure until a threshold
is reached. With me, it takes forms of respiratory irritation which makes me far more susceptible than usual to colds, etc. But I've known a couple of commercial lab owners who couldn't even walk into their own building where RA4 was being used without breaking out in hives.

Yep, same thing with me and isocyanates, respiratory irritation that feels like I'm coming down with something, start itching, terrible. . I would be wearing a respirator, everyone else looking at me like I was nuts. I tell people if you don't want to become sensitized don't breathe it in the first place
.
It's like the guys that never wore earplugs, once they lost half their hearing the noise didn't bother them so much.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I got sensitized to amines in industrial epoxies. Both Ciba bleach and RA4 blix contain a bit of amines, though my sensitivity to these has mitigated somewhat due to
far less exposure to the kinds of industrial coatings which have largely been phased out in recent decades. Still, it's a matter of cumulative exposure until a threshold
is reached. With me, it takes forms of respiratory irritation which makes me far more susceptible than usual to colds, etc. But I've known a couple of commercial lab owners who couldn't even walk into their own building where RA4 was being used without breaking out in hives.

AFAIK, the Ciba bleach had no amines and the RA4 bleach has ammonia. If you use an ammonium thiosulfate fix for B&W it is the same thing. So, I don't know what the problem is.

PE

 

[btaylor]

Anybody use either of these two papers.?.......

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulracophpa8x6.html

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/300shmispacr.html

I haven’t used them, but I have found personally that off brand papers waste my time. It takes some test prints to get color and density dialed in pretty close for any paper. It takes about 10 minutes for me to make one print (from double checking focus to evaluating the dry print, and it has to be dry to see if I’ve nailed it). I use Fuji Crystal Archive paper. It is very consistent box to box and from 8x10, 11x14 and 16x20 in both speed and color. This amounts to a huge time/paper/chemistry saver. I tried off brand paper and the waste in time and materials far out weighed the small premium I paid for the Fuji.
YMMV

 

[Paul Howell]

Didn't know there is any off brand paper left, thought only Kodak and Fuji were coating color. If only 2 makers left then ultrafine must be either on or the other. In terms of paper drums or trays. I use drums, chemistry is one shot, easier to keep at near the correct temperate in bottles in a water bath on cheap heating pad. Of the different brands, I like Cibrachrome as they don't use gaskets. I have a range of sizes from 5X7 to 16X20 by various makes.

Who else is coating color?

 

[btaylor]

One of the Ultrafine links mentions Mitsubishi as the maker with some specific warnings on chemistry. No idea about the second one. I tried the Freestyle house brand RA4 paper which many have supposed is Fuji. A significant number of sheets in more than one box were damaged (light struck or something similar). The Fuji bought at the same store has been perfect box after box.

 

[Wayne]

yes, do it. I printed Cibachrome/Ilfochrome in drums for many years until it died, and I now print RA-4 in trays. I started with drums but its a major PIA compared to trays. Drums may be a cleaner easier way to start though.

 

[pinholer]

I didn't need to open this thread because it will probably get me back into doing color again. Anyway, for me at least, color is easier than black and white. In black and white you are varying the print density through exposure and the contrast through your choice of paper grade,, contrast filter, and/o development. Every print is different and I needed to find the recipe for that particular print by making and processing several test strips. In color printing you are again controlling the density through exposure but instead of contrast you control the color balance through the filter pack. The good news is that films and papers are very consistent. This means that once you find the filter pack that works it doesn't change hardly at all.

The major cause of exposure changes is the size of the print because as you increase the size of the print you need to raise the enlarger head cuts down the amount of light on each square inch of paper. We know that light intensity falls off as the square of the distance. So if we double the distance we need to increase the exposure time by a factor of 4. Or we can open the lens up 2 stops and keep the original time. I belonged to a camera club and several of us printed our own color. One fellow had his enlarger post marked in f-stops for a 10 second exposure. He just got the image size he wanted, red off the f-stop, set it on the enlarger lens, and exposed for 10 seconds. It worked great for him especially since he was making R-prints from slides. Not so much for me since I was making C-prints from negatives. So I started standardizing. First, I standardized on an enlarger height a 20 inches because I can make contact sheets and 8x10 prints from that height. Next, I put a tape measure along the enlarger post so I could read the lens height directly. Now it is just some math. At first I used a calculator; now I just read the exposure time off of a spread sheet printout which is based on my contact sheet exposure time and 20" lens to baseboard distance.

I like drums as opposed to open trays because once the paper is in the drum I can turn the room lights back on and see what I am doing. I do use a Jobo with a drum that holds two 8x10s. I expose one sheet of paper, put it in a light tight box, expose the second sheet, put both sheets in the drum, put the lid on, and turn the room lights back on. It then takes about 5 minutes to process both prints including the prewash and all 3 final rinses. Put the prints on the drying rack, dry the drum, and I am ready for the next prints.

I went to the Freestyle website and saw that their Silverprint chemistry comes in a 20 liter size. Back when I was using the Kodak chemistry I kept it as concentrates and made up 500 ml batches for each session of ten prints. Is there any problem with storing the Silverprint chemistry in partially filled containers for 12-18 months? With Kodak chemistry if the bleach fix started looking "puny" I knew it was time to order more because it was on its last legs.

 

[mshchem]

I didn't need to open this thread because it will probably get me back into doing color again. Anyway, for me at least, color is easier than black and white. In black and white you are varying the print density through exposure and the contrast through your choice of paper grade,, contrast filter, and/o development. Every print is different and I needed to find the recipe for that particular print by making and processing several test strips. In color printing you are again controlling the density through exposure but instead of contrast you control the color balance through the filter pack. The good news is that films and papers are very consistent. This means that once you find the filter pack that works it doesn't change hardly at all.

The major cause of exposure changes is the size of the print because as you increase the size of the print you need to raise the enlarger head cuts down the amount of light on each square inch of paper. We know that light intensity falls off as the square of the distance. So if we double the distance we need to increase the exposure time by a factor of 4. Or we can open the lens up 2 stops and keep the original time. I belonged to a camera club and several of us printed our own color. One fellow had his enlarger post marked in f-stops for a 10 second exposure. He just got the image size he wanted, red off the f-stop, set it on the enlarger lens, and exposed for 10 seconds. It worked great for him especially since he was making R-prints from slides. Not so much for me since I was making C-prints from negatives. So I started standardizing. First, I standardized on an enlarger height a 20 inches because I can make contact sheets and 8x10 prints from that height. Next, I put a tape measure along the enlarger post so I could read the lens height directly. Now it is just some math. At first I used a calculator; now I just read the exposure time off of a spread sheet printout which is based on my contact sheet exposure time and 20" lens to baseboard distance.

I like drums as opposed to open trays because once the paper is in the drum I can turn the room lights back on and see what I am doing. I do use a Jobo with a drum that holds two 8x10s. I expose one sheet of paper, put it in a light tight box, expose the second sheet, put both sheets in the drum, put the lid on, and turn the room lights back on. It then takes about 5 minutes to process both prints including the prewash and all 3 final rinses. Put the prints on the drying rack, dry the drum, and I am ready for the next prints.

I went to the Freestyle website and saw that their Silverprint chemistry comes in a 20 liter size. Back when I was using the Kodak chemistry I kept it as concentrates and made up 500 ml batches for each session of ten prints. Is there any problem with storing the Silverprint chemistry in partially filled containers for 12-18 months? With Kodak chemistry if the bleach fix started looking "puny" I knew it was time to order more because it was on its last legs.

You are an enlarging genius ! Everything you say is a great approach . I don't know about the Silverprint chemistry. If it comes from Germany it's Tetenal, good stuff. One note if you want to use Kodak, Unique photo in NJ sells Kodak in 5 and 10 L at a time individual chemicals. I used a GENERIC RA4 blix for a time . The fixer part would ppt. sulfur when darkroom got in the high 50F (it's also a reaction with oxygen) I split (just the fix part) into small HDPE bottles way full. Haven't had any problems. I bought a bunch of 120 Ektar a month back. I stepped in a hole and broke a bone in my foot. So, it's Ektar for the Holidays! Unique also sells bottle at a time Kodak Flexicolor C 41 RA ( 1 min fix, 1 min bleach) and it's cheap. I print on Crystal Archive since that's all that is left in cut sheets. I picked up an Ilford quartz halogen Ilfospeed dryer OMG the gloss level is approaching Cibachrome. It melts the gelatin so it flows. Jobo 2830 drums are still somewhat affordable. The dopey 2870 extension tubes hold 2 8x10 sheets, put the paper in the 2870 and then the 2830, THEN snap them together. 4 at a time. Printing in a darkroom is magic! Alchemy!

 

[btaylor]

That’s a neat trick with the enlarged elevation calculation. I am lazy and use an old Ilford enlarging exposure meter for calculating magnification exposure changes. I may try your method, I like the simplicity.
The Silverprint chemistry seems to come from Michigan, so probably not Tetenal. Keeping qualities seem good so far. I like Unique, but shipping is expensive as I am on the other side of the country and Freestyle is local to me.
+1 on the Ilfospeed dryer. I got one with flaking foam rollers in a darkroom lot. Almost threw it out. I tried some closed foam weather stripping over the roller cores- it worked! It is really fast drying any RC paper and produces a very nice finish.

 

[pinholer]

I am lazy and use an old Ilford enlarging exposure meter for calculating magnification exposure changes.
.

Ahh, yes the EM10 exposure meter. I used one for several years. I filed out a notch in the negative carrier so I could make a reading of the film base between negatives. Then I made a number of test strips of the film base only at different enlarger heights looking for the minimum exposure to give a full black.( Anybody but me remember Fred Picker?) Then I could go directly from the meter reading to the exposure time. I made a little table that I taped on the meter so everything would be handy..