Printing color at home.....

[Martin Rickards]

CMoore, consider this. I try to be optimistic but who knows how long ra-4 will exist for. There may not be an option in the future to do this sort of printing.

Is not RA4 used to convert people's mobile phone images to paper copies?

 

[1kgcoffee]

Yes but the trend is to inkjet

 

[Paul Howell]

Although I have not printed color in several years when I do I use a Unicolor and Kodak color correction filters to make up a filter pack and place above the condenser in my D3 set for 50mm. I process in drums with a motor base, keep the temp at room temp which for Phoenix is about 75 in my darkroom. Next week I plan on ordering a R4 kit and paper, I have a backlog of negatives to print. .

 

[btaylor]

RA4 printing is incredibly cheap. Freestyle sells house brand dev/blix/stab and the total comes to about $155 for 20 liters which will do an incredible number of prints if you use daylight drums one shot. I use it replenished in a roller processor and it feels like it’s practically free: 10 ml per 8x10.
If you want to do it, just jump in. It’s really fun.

 

[CMoore]

Yeah...i suppose i will have to give it a shot.
I need to go back and read some of the links that were posted in this thread, but.....I have a Beseler 45 Color Head, will i still need to get "Color Correction Filters" of some type.?
Thank You

 

[MattKing]

Yeah...i suppose i will have to give it a shot.
I need to go back and read some of the links that were posted in this thread, but.....I have a Beseler 45 Color Head, will i still need to get "Color Correction Filters" of some type.?
Thank You

No.
But the viewing filters kit will help you with the colour adjustments.

 

[btaylor]

An 18% gray card and the viewing filters Matt mentions above are all I use for color and density correction references. Your color head will provide the filtration.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

.....how many of you Guys/Gals print color in your home darkroom.
I have considered...more like day-dreamed...about trying it many times..
Anybody have a link, to a Youtube video, that gives a good Tutorial/Description of printing color.?
I am mostly curious at this point. Not sure how practical it will be...For Me...to deal with learning and having the stuff for printing color at home.
Thank You

I wouldn't even consider it; got problems enough.

 

[1kgcoffee]

Cmoore,
If you're looking to save cash, there's usually a few rolls of kodak endura on ebay. Expired, but still usable. Buy a rotary cutter to go with it and you have more than enough high quality paper to play around with. What I do is sit in a light tight room with a podcast playing and cut up dozens of sheets at once, then store them in an old paper box.

There are a few blog type tutorials online. I actually started writing, but have not completed an RA-4 tutorial. The process is as simple as B&W, just in drums and with the same number of chemical steps - dev, stop, blix. Temp doesn't really matter. Since you have the head, all you need are paper, chemicals, thermometer, drums and roller. Go for the kodak ra-rt developer/replenisher and blix kits. Get a small 8x10 drum and something larger for making larger or multiple prints. Larger drums have lines inside to hold multiple smaller print sizes. Rollers/motor base can be found on ebay. It will cost a few hundred to get setup with everything, but after the initial investment you won't have to worry about restocking for a very long time.

Personally, viewing filters are not very helpful to me. I scan into photoshop, analyze the curves and color balance to get an idea. It can be a tedious process when you first begin, but once you find the correct filtration settings you can pump out prints extremely fast. I normally over-expose c-41 but they're all at similar density, and print 8sec@f11 or thereabouts. When you're close it takes only slight filtration change to get the color balance you want. Just need a color wheel:
cmyk-HSB by Aaron, on Flickr

I have read nearly everything written online about RA-4, from here, RFF, LFF, flickr, read all the tutorials and watched everything youtube has on the subject, which are mostly short ten minute clips. There are some very knowledgeable people on here who have done RA-4 professionally for years. Don't worry about the learning curve, as you can get answers pretty quick. It's more fun than B&W printing.

 

[pentaxuser]

I clicked on the link you provide. hoping that there would be a full, explanation as to what all the figures mean but there wasn't. Can you help here with an explanation or a link to the explanation? Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[1kgcoffee]

Certainly. The numbers below the colour xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx refer to CMYK. The numbers next to that in red refer to hue. I'm using a new method of printing color with condenser head and LED light bulbs that outputs coloured light controlled by hue saturation and brightness. For typical film it's in the range of (H:327, S:0.3) and (H:333, S:0.3 - ie 30%) If you follow the line from raspberry to the center wheel, thats about where I print at. Just imagine that the color becomes less saturated towards the center. I guess it would be equal to M-45 Y-45 which is typical for endura. All the advantages and pitfalls of a condenser head for RA-4 printing

If you add red, the print will become more cyan, that's what the "+C" denotes beside Red. It's basically a supplement for helping me to evaluate colour balance

 

[RPC]

Cmoore,
If you're looking to save cash, there's usually a few rolls of kodak endura on ebay. Expired, but still usable. Buy a rotary cutter to go with it and you have more than enough high quality paper to play around with.

I would strongly advise against buying anything other than fresh paper. I have purchased paper off of ebay before and the paper was apparently expired and I could not get good prints; it simply would not balance properly as if it had crossover. The problem went away with paper known to be fresh. This would be especially problematic for someone learning to color balance. I'm not saying everything would be like that, but I would buy new paper from a reputable seller until you learn to color balance and see what's what before you take any chances.

I use Fuji CA II paper with great results. It is sold in cut sheets.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I second the above even it if is Fuji.

PE

 

[Chan Tran]

I would strongly advise against buying anything other than fresh paper. I have purchased paper off of ebay before and the paper was apparently expired and I could not get good prints; it simply would not balance properly as if it had crossover. The problem went away with paper known to be fresh. This would be especially problematic for someone learning to color balance. I'm not saying everything would be like that, but I would buy new paper from a reputable seller until you learn to color balance and see what's what before you take any chances.

I use Fuji CA II paper with great results. It is sold in cut sheets.

I agree with you. The purpose of printing at home is to be able to get prints that are better than the lab. If not it's not worth it. I never save money doing my own prints.

 

[MattKing]

One further tip - see if you can get a few tubes, not just one.
I like to work with four tubes, because while I am using one, the other three can be air drying.
Otherwise you will find yourself spending more time than you might wish drying the tubes between uses - water drops spoil prints.

 

[CMoore]

No.
But the viewing filters kit will help you with the colour adjustments.

Are these probably going to be Old/Used items...something i should look for on Ebay.?
Is that what they are called.?......."Viewing Filters"

One further tip - see if you can get a few tubes, not just one.
I like to work with four tubes, because while I am using one, the other three can be air drying.
Otherwise you will find yourself spending more time than you might wish drying the tubes between uses - water drops spoil prints.

My only experience with printing is, Black & White by using Trays.
When doing color.....is there an advantage to switching from Trays to Tubes.?

Thank You

 

[mshchem]

Yeah...i suppose i will have to give it a shot.
I need to go back and read some of the links that were posted in this thread, but.....I have a Beseler 45 Color Head, will i still need to get "Color Correction Filters" of some type.?
Thank You

OK here's how to start. Shoot a roll of Kodak Portra 400 (120 if possible ), daylight, sunny 16 or incident light meter, nothing else to start. Have a good lab process your film and make 4x6 snaps on glossy paper. Buy a box of Fresh Fuji CA, don't even think of using old paper. Get a 5 liter kit from Freestyle.
With your colorhead ,Portra and CA start at 20Y 40M, make a proof sheet ,contact print of your negatives on 8x10 CA .Expose a test strip in seconds 5,2,3,4,6,10,15 .
This will give steps at total exposure of in seconds, 5,7,10,14,20,30,45 , roughly 1/2 stop apart . Use your enlarger with a 105mm lens at f8 with a 6x9 carrier inserted, focus the carrier so you can repeat this ,record elevation . It's just simple only complication is the filter pack. Today's paper and film is so good if you stick to the same combination it won't change.

Here's the reason to forget all of this, white balance .unless you shoot everything at 5500K it's darn difficult to print well without Photoshop.

Biggest reason is I suspect RA4 is on life support, it's not going to be around forever. I suspect that a very few big labs use most of the paper. Cut sheets are definitely not going to be around much longer

If you want to explore a nearly lost art by all means take up the RA4.

I do this on occasion for a bit of nostalgia, but modern pigment shooting machines are pretty hard to beat

MHO be fearless, but smart,
Best Regards Mike

 

[CMoore]

I am afraid, at least to start, this is going to have to be 35mm.

Anyway.....Mike is not the first person i have Heard/Read this from.
Color R4A...is it in danger of disappearing for some reason.?
Is it more likely than Black and White chemicals to be discontinued.?
Thank You

 

[mshchem]

Tubes are a complete waste of time and money . Unless you have 10 of them ,each print you have to disassemble, wash, then dry. Takes 4 times longer to clean and dry the tube than make a print. Use a tray at 75 degrees. 2 minutes developer, stop bath then blix. Just like black and white. You can turn on the lights 15 seconds after it's in the blix.

I use an old Kodak rapid color processor model 11 , the one that everyone makes fun of. But it will turn out a print every 5 minutes including washing and presoak. No need to wash any tubes.

 

[MattKing]

Are these probably going to be Old/Used items...something i should look for on Ebay.?
Is that what they are called.?......."Viewing Filters"


My only experience with printing is, Black & White by using Trays.
When doing color.....is there an advantage to switching from Trays to Tubes.?

Thank You

Yes - Viewing filters.
Here are some web images of the kit: https://www.google.ca/search?q=koda...QKHQCmBzEQ9QEwBHoECAUQBA#imgrc=RKbeslUssq18lM:
The Tubes are like your film developing tanks. You load them with exposed paper, and then work with the chemicals in the room light.
They work just as well with black and white - whenever I don't want to set up the trays in my temporary darkroom I use them instead. They are great for contact proof sheets.
Most of mine are actually the old Cibachrome tubes, which I use on a rotary agitator.
Here are some web images: https://www.google.ca/search?q=ciba...QIHWAwDMYQ9QEwD3oECAEQCg#imgrc=w-lNwPrWuUHMvM:

 

[MattKing]

Tubes are a complete waste of time and money . Unless you have 10 of them ,each print you have to disassemble, wash, then dry. Takes 4 times longer to clean and dry the tube than make a print. Use a tray at 75 degrees. 2 minutes developer, stop bath then blix. Just like black and white. You can turn on the lights 15 seconds after it's in the blix.

I use an old Kodak rapid color processor model 11 , the one that everyone makes fun of. But it will turn out a print every 5 minutes including washing and presoak. No need to wash any tubes.

On this, we disagree!
Four tubes, four tea towels and a drying mat.
Ten seconds of towel drying per tube per use plus the air does the rest.

 

[mshchem]

On this, we disagree!
Four tubes, four tea towels and a drying mat.
Ten seconds of towel drying per tube per use plus the air does the rest.

Yeah, I bet I had 15 Cibachrome type tubes at some point. You are not wrong. The DevTec tubes were the same format . This stuff was dirt cheap in the day. My now defunct camera shop gave me (I couldn't stand to see them destroyed ) a couple dozen of various types upto 20 x24. I give them away to the young folks. I still have 4 or 5 Beseler rollers in storage cabinets.
Different work flows . Man I miss Cibachrome! I want Kodak paper in 25 and 100 sheet boxes.

My only point is if you want to find out if you want to get into RA4. Try it without spending a bunch of money.

Matt, I'm still counting you to take me in once martial law is declared here south of the border . I will bring a truck load of Jobo tubes, tanks, and processors, and we can start a lab
Best Regards Mike

 

[mshchem]

I am afraid, at least to start, this is going to have to be 35mm.

Anyway.....Mike is not the first person i have Heard/Read this from.
Color R4A...is it in danger of disappearing for some reason.?
Is it more likely than Black and White chemicals to be discontinued.?
Thank You

Black and white will be around forever .RA4 used to be in every Kmart, Walmart, Target, etc. People would drop off their film and get triple prints from 36 exposure roll for 10 bucks. No one (amateurs) prints pictures anymore. 99% of that market is gone . Kodak Alaris pays Carestream in Colorado to make all of it's paper for the world. Fuji ,I think still has a US and EU plant? ?
At best, long term, the paper will be available in large rolls, pain to deal with.

RA4 is still dirt cheap for making tons of snaps, as long as people are willing to wait for prints in the mail.
Walmart uses Fuji dry labs . Target is doing away with the photo service.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Sick. If you still wished for Walmart or Target so-so quality, why haunt a darkroom forum? RA4 is still a standard method for making high-quality enlargements. This can be done either using an enlarger in the traditional manner or big expensive laser printing devices via a prior scan. The latter consume a lot of square footage of paper commercially. And RA4 is still more cost-effective in multiples than inkjet. So I doubt it's going to disappear anytime soon. I prefer doing it in drums, despite the
fact I have a big roller-transport machine laying around. Most of the drums encountered on EBay are usable with RA4, though for anything bigger than 20X24 prints you might have to make your own drum out of irrigation pipe. At first you can simply roll the drum back and forth in your darkroom sink until you find the need for a dedicated roller base. Not much can go wrong with a drum. Lots can go wrong with fancy machinery reliant on electronics. Gotta start somewhere.

 

[RPC]

My only experience with printing is, Black & White by using Trays.
When doing color.....is there an advantage to switching from Trays to Tubes.?

Thank You

In my opinion, based on much experience, there is a big benefit to using trays and not drums--productivity. This is especially important when you are new and learning to color balance. You don't have to wash and dry the drum after each use, so you can get right back to making another print.

With drums, you must use a pre-wet and stop bath to avoid unevenness or streaks. Neither are needed with trays.

With trays, you put the paper in the developer tray after exposing, then the blix and wash, easy enough. With drums, after loading the paper into the drum, you must pour all the solutions in and out of the drum. Pre-wet, developer, stop bath, blix, perhaps wash--all in and out.

You must have a way to rotate the drum, motorized, or you can roll it back and forth the whole time. Want to do that?

With some drums, it only holds one size of paper, e.g. 8x10, so your test print must be that size. With trays, you can make any size test print up to the size of the tray.

I have determined I can get just as much capacity from the solutions using trays as if using one-shot in drums.

I used drums many years ago and when room temperature processing became available I switched to trays and never looked back. It was absolutely the best thing to happen to color printing. Despite this, some swear by drums. Not me.

Now, some have a problem with developer fumes or working in the dark so drums would be appropriate for them.