Pricing alternative process prints for art fairs

[xkaes]

That sounds like a valuable exercise to me. For several reasons.

He was very effectively demonstrating the importance of Art-speak -- and the lack thereof.

If you want to sell your photos, you better be a good salesman.

If you're selling used cars it's called "throwing the B.S.". If you're selling art it's referred to as "Art-speak". If you're a politician, it's called.................

 

[koraks]

IDK, I can appreciate a good salesman and I can appreciate a good story. Good salesmen tend to have good stories. But there are a heck of a lot of mediocre or even bad salesmen around. Fortunately for them, there's also a lot of indifferent customers with money burning in their pockets.

Anyway, the notion that selling art would somehow involve BS is...well, BS, I think. But I do understand that some stories don't make a whole lot of sense to some people - or simply don't appeal to them. That doesn't make them bad stories, per se.

 

[xkaes]

I've heard enough Art-speak and used car sales pitches to know that there's no definitive line between it and salesman B.S. What's the difference between a successful salesman and an unsuccessful one? It's certainly not telling the truth, but it might be, as you suggest, the ability to tell a good story -- AKA, B.S.

I still remember back when I bought my last car. The salesman told me that State Law required a $300 undercoating. I told him that it was not the case, and showed him the Chevrolet Sales Brochure which clearly stated that adding an undercoating voided the Chevy warranty. His response was, "I wouldn't lie to you, I used to play for the NFL".

The best con men aren't liars, but they don't tell the truth either.

 

[koraks]

It's certainly not telling the truth

I'm sorry, but that's representative of only a small sub-section of salespeople. There's a lot of sales that's going on that involves insightful and well-informed discussion. However, I do agree that it's not something the second hand car market is particularly well-known for. And while I understand that this is a popular example, I find the association between that and the narrative one might have to explain a work of art kind of forced.

Anyway, I'm not here to change your views on certain professions. Just giving a counter-point to your IMO crass allegations; with that done, there's no need to further explore it. I wish @cirwin2010 the best of luck selling his prints, and I think a good story to go along with them will definitely make a difference.

 

[xkaes]

We definitely agree that a good story will make a difference. So will a tall tale.

 

[GregY]

Thanks for your input. I'm planning on just matting the prints. I do have one large print in a large frame I'm going to put on an easel as a sort of show piece though.

Regarding your comments on unrealistic prices, could you clarify if that is too high or too low?

As far as the costs for the fair, it was just $100 total for the space and table, chair, a tent rental. The real upfront cost is matting the print and the time to make them.

I do agree on having a card with a brief description of what the images are and how they are made. I am hoping the novelty will add some interest, but you are correct that most people won't know nor care. I have some ideas for propping up some prints on a table using some mini easels/stands. I won't have too many prints so I'm going to try to spruce things up with presentation.

the price of film, paper & chemicals are part of the upfront cost

 

[koraks]

We definitely agree that a good story will make a difference. So will a tall tale.

Absolutely! Also, some tall tales manage to stand up - others get knocked down. The former are the interesting ones.

 

[jeffreyg]

Not a tall tale but one that some might get a kick out of. Twenty-five years ago I was hanging an exhibition of my photographs in a gallery space of a top flight frame shop and at the same time entertaining my grandson who was eight. A couple had come in to pickup something they had framed. They spent some time in front of two of the photographs that were part of a series I had done. He asked if he could try to sell them. I told him that if he sells anything I will give him half. He made the sale! And told them his Popy took the pictures. They came over to me and asked if I had others of a similar subject. A few days later they came to my house and brought three more. I gave him half of both the sales. Considering the cost of mounting and framing he came out better than me. It was still worth it

 

[Pieter12]

A cautionary tale here. My daughter sells jewelry at craft fairs and in consignment shops. On several occasions, she has seen her designs copied and sold by others. An unscrupulous individual could easily (and cheaply at your prices) purchase a print, scan it and make multiple inkjet prints to sell as their own.

 

[backseatpilot]

Hello, fellow Bostonian! I've participated in a few art sales around here and... not made a whole lot of money. I still like doing them, and I think it's a fun way to connect with people about art. Do you mind sharing which art fair you're participating in?

I think there are basically two categories of "fairs" - serious events for the collector, and more casual events for people looking for tchotshkes. I have not done a "serious" event yet, but the casual ones tend to attract a younger crowd who have a lower price ceiling and are not looking for fine art. This kind of audience wants cheap stuff and "fun" things with recognizable characters on them and pithy sayings. Lots of keychains with cartoon characters and t-shirts that have the Millenial/Gen-Z equivalent of "Not until I've had my coffee!" emblazoned on them. I have sold next to nothing at these fairs - a handful of postcards at most.

At more artist-focused events, things like Open Studios, I do a little better. People want to talk about the process, and they're interested in lingering and browsing. I still don't sell a whole lot. I think out of the ones I've done, I've sold one framed print (it was an older image in a cheap-ish frame, I think it sold for $75). Again, small items have sold much better than larger, more expensive items.

Here's what I charged last year, based on surveying other photographers at similar craft fairs:
-Small digital prints (4x6) - $10
-Large digital prints (8x10) - $25
-4 postcard bundle - $10
-Cyanotypes (4x5) - $25
-Silver gelatin prints, various sizes, all matted and framed - varied, between $100 - $250 based on size and difficulty of print

The digital prints and cyanotypes are all matted to a standard frame size and in a plastic sleeve so customers can pick their own frames. The small-sized cyanotypes have sold best, followed by the postcards.

I'm actually exhibiting at Somerville Open Studios in a couple weeks if you want to come by and talk about things - feel free to send me a message.

 

[Pieter12]

Hello, fellow Bostonian! I've participated in a few art sales around here and... not made a whole lot of money. I still like doing them, and I think it's a fun way to connect with people about art. Do you mind sharing which art fair you're participating in?

I think there are basically two categories of "fairs" - serious events for the collector, and more casual events for people looking for tchotshkes. I have not done a "serious" event yet, but the casual ones tend to attract a younger crowd who have a lower price ceiling and are not looking for fine art. This kind of audience wants cheap stuff and "fun" things with recognizable characters on them and pithy sayings. Lots of keychains with cartoon characters and t-shirts that have the Millenial/Gen-Z equivalent of "Not until I've had my coffee!" emblazoned on them. I have sold next to nothing at these fairs - a handful of postcards at most.

At more artist-focused events, things like Open Studios, I do a little better. People want to talk about the process, and they're interested in lingering and browsing. I still don't sell a whole lot. I think out of the ones I've done, I've sold one framed print (it was an older image in a cheap-ish frame, I think it sold for $75). Again, small items have sold much better than larger, more expensive items.

Here's what I charged last year, based on surveying other photographers at similar craft fairs:
-Small digital prints (4x6) - $10
-Large digital prints (8x10) - $25
-4 postcard bundle - $10
-Cyanotypes (4x5) - $25
-Silver gelatin prints, various sizes, all matted and framed - varied, between $100 - $250 based on size and difficulty of print

The digital prints and cyanotypes are all matted to a standard frame size and in a plastic sleeve so customers can pick their own frames. The small-sized cyanotypes have sold best, followed by the postcards.

I'm actually exhibiting at Somerville Open Studios in a couple weeks if you want to come by and talk about things - feel free to send me a message.

I'm sorry, you're cheating yourself and every other photographer out there. Those prices barely cover the cost of materials and time to make them, leaving nothing for overhead or the creator.

 

[backseatpilot]

I'm sorry, you're cheating yourself and every other photographer out there. Those prices barely cover the cost of materials and time to make them, leaving nothing for overhead or the creator.

At higher price points, nothing sells. What's the alternative?

 

[koraks]

I'm sorry, you're cheating yourself and every other photographer out there. Those prices barely cover the cost of materials and time to make them, leaving nothing for overhead or the creator.

IDK. I guess there's a wide bandwidth in which people move. I see quite a few people who basically have a hobby and like the idea of recovering some of the cost of material, while getting a mild kick out of selling something. That's how I interpret this. I don't think that's the same market as 'fine arts photographers' with fancy artist's statements, gallery representation etc. Different worlds; they don't mingle much it seems.

At higher price points, nothing sells. What's the alternative?

It won't sell in the venues you're aiming at. To get access to a different market segment, you'll have to talk to different people. And hope that the work (and you) can convince them. It's horrendously competitive. Not a whole lot of fun to be honest. From your story, I get a feeling you're enjoying what you're doing as a kind of "hobby-plus" next to a regular career. Keep doing it if that's the case; that would be my advice.

 

[cliveh]

I think you should price it at what you think it worth.

 

[Chromium VI]

Here in Portugal, the "Portuguese Center of Screenprinters" (CPS) also has works on photography and other printing techniques. They have a small article on the procedures and caring of original work https://www.cps.pt/en/sobre/atelier/, as well as a store, checkout their prices and judge by yourselves...

 

[koraks]

Here in Portugal, the "Portuguese Center of Screenprinters" (CPS) also has works on photography and other printing techniques. They have a small article on the procedures and caring of original work https://www.cps.pt/en/sobre/atelier/, as well as a store, checkout their prices and judge by yourselves...

Some really, really beautiful work there!!!

 

[Carnie Bob]

Getting right to the point, I'm planning to show my work for the first time at an art fair this June. I'm going to be presenting silver gelatin, cyanotypes, and kallitypes. I'm trying to determine a fair price for my work that is both attractive, but also not underselling the effort and time it takes to produce my prints.

Starting with Cyanotypes I'm printing on 8x12" and 11x14" sizes with the image area taking up most of the paper if the aspect ratio of the picture allows for it (i.e. 14" length on 11x15" paper). I don't plan on editioning my cyanotypes giving me more freedom to do what I like with the images. Some prints are toned, some are not, some have versions of both. Choice is fun.

I'm just not sure what a fair price for a cyantoype would be. I plan to get these mounted and matted to standard picture frame sizes (16x20" and 11x14"). Depending on cost to get that done, I'm thinking somewhere between $45-65 for the smaller prints and $75-95 for the larger prints. There is alway the option to not matt them to make them cheaper to purchase, but wanted some thoughts about the prices. Too high or too low?


Now for Kallitypes I have a better idea of what I think I want to do. I'm toning my kallitypes in platinum or palladium and they are about as technically well executed as they can get (in my opinion). I'm planning on having two sizes: 8x10" paper with an image area of about 5x7" and 11x15" paper with an image area of about 9x12" (aspect ratio may vary from image to image). These would also be matted and I would edition them this time given the time and effort it takes to make these. I'm thinking edition size of 20 for the smaller size and edition size of 10 for the larger size. For price I'm thinking $75 for the smaller size and $180 for the larger size. I'm thinking this may be a bit low, but it is an art fair, not a gallery.

Looking for thoughts on prices or anyone's experiences selling alt process prints. Not expecting to sell much, but anything that does is more money to fund making more images.

Thanks!

I assume when you are speaking of Art Fair you mean local table presentation in a Tent maybe, if that is the case then one would attend a few to see the current pricing of work that you feel is of your level, and price accordingly.
If you are speaking about a International Art Fair then you are at another level and if you have been asked by a gallery to attend then your work should be priced accordingly.
In Toronto I have had the experience of working with a large group of photographers that exhibit there work at both types of Art Fairs. If you are not paying a 50% commission to the gallery then you retain the full sale, and many photographers love to work this way and rent a booth and spend the 4 days selling the work.
If you want to move up the food chain so to speak, first thing needs to be considered that the REPRESNTATION gallery will only want to show your if the selling price of each piece is worth their overhead, staff, and marketing expenses. There for you need to be at a price point that is worth it to you and the gallery..
From this point if you are collectable and you have sales then over time your work can escalate in price, this is a long timeline in many cases over a 15 year period of predictable exhibiting and sales.

I have found that it is much easier to sell my work now that I am using a very specialized permanent process and each image has a low edition of 2 and the prints rarely if ever match, so in my case I would present a print as follows.

1/2 Unique Multiple Layer Gum Bichromate over Palladium for a certain price - If I sell the first print then I escalate the second print price as it will be last made of that image.

There seems to be a movement in the photo art world to more handmade, permanent, low edition prints and you should take advantage of this.

For a young photographer having large editions is working against the value of the work IMHO

good luck with your efforts.

 

[wiltw]

At higher price points, nothing sells. What's the alternative?

Indeed. Know your target maket. What would sell at what price in a wealthier locale would certainly be higher than in a more modest income area!