Faberryman I am sure you do not intend to desribe Fuji's buisiness plan! But sorry I have to state:There is a lot of room for prices to increase. Fujicolor 200 and 400 XTRA is $2.99/roll at B&H.
Trendland,
we all know that you hate facts. And we all know that you have absolutely no knowledge about the film industry. Your posts are often simply a ridiculous mixture of FUD, myths and often stupid lies (like your recent Provia 'discontinuation' posts).
Fact is that Kodak has increased prices often more in the past than Fujifilm with lots of products: For example Pro 400H is 10% cheaper than Portra 400. All Kodaks sheet films are about 30% more expensive than Fuji's sheet films.
Another fact ist that all manufacturers suffer from too low market prices: See the presentation of ADOX CEO at the Helsinki Photo Fair about that topic. He as a manufacturer is confronted with these problems every day. He knows what he is talking about. Lots of film prices are still lower than 20-30 years ago (with inflation implemented), and that despite the fact that the market crashed by more than 99% from all-time-high to all-time-low. It is just a miracle that we have still so low prices!!
You will see: Kodak will be the next who will increase prices. Their financial situation is 'not the best' (using a diplomatic term). Other manufacturers will follow. We've seen all that in the past. And all that is good, because only by fair prices for the manufacturers a long-term sustainable production with new investments is possible. Period. That are the facts of the current market.
If photographers would really be so stupid to follow your ridiculous Fuji boycott, what would be the result:
Fuji would be forced to stop film production. There would be no more real competition in the color film market. Kodak would have no real, serious color film competitor anymore. A de facto monopol. They would increase prices much higher than with competition! Prices would explode. And then of course you would be the first to complain about too high prices!!
"Did Ilford, Kodak, Ferrania and others not made a fine job? They do not deserve ALL our money?"
Film Ferrania has currently not a single product. And the performance of their P30 Alpha was very dissappointing (I've tested a lot of this film). But Fujifilm is offering six films I really like.They work flawlessly. And Fuji's QC is the best in the market. Fuji's 120 film converting with the Easy-End-Seal and barcode system is second to none.
I have tested Provia 100F and new Ektachrome E100 intensively side-by-side. E100 is a very good film, but not as good as Provia 100F. Provia remains the benchmark for neutral-tone mid-saturation colour reversal films.
And Velvia 50 is a league of its own. I love that film. No one else on the market has something like that. And no one ever will.
Fact is that Fujifilm alone has saved the color reversal film market! Kodak stopped all E6 films in 2012. But Fujifilm instead continued production of films and E6 chemistry. Despite the market trend! Only because of Fujifilm the reversal film market and the whole E6 lab infrastructure has survived! Only because of that Kodak had the chance to re-introduce Ektachrome!!! If Fuji had done the same as Kodak, the whole E6 infrastructure would have been dead today. And we wouldn't have a new Ektachrome either.
Kudos to Fuji for that. They have supported us colour reversal film shooters all the years. I am thankful for that.
Seeing Fuji trying to increease the prices for film is a positive news.
Possibly, although this most likely has gone hand in hand with the need for (1) product redesign in order to fit available supply of materials and (2) the need to redesign production lines and equipment to allow for a more flexible production system (ie smaller batches). Especially the latter is a catch-22 as accommodating smaller volumes to suit a dramatically shrunken market (regardless of marginal recovery over the pas few years) requires investments that have to preceed marginal profits over the long run - provided they will even materialize. The ROI is likely to be marginal if positive in the first place, and any effort Fuji still puts in the film business is likely as much (if not, more) courtesy to existing users and staff as it is business acumen.My personal theory why they recently discontinued some film is that they have the same problems everyone has and this is the unavailability of skilled engineers and workers.
Koraks I am not sure if most photographers will see price increasement and discontinuation asPossibly, although this most likely has gone hand in hand with the need for (1) product redesign in order to fit available supply of materials and (2) the need to redesign production lines and equipment to allow for a more flexible production system (ie smaller batches). Especially the latter is a catch-22 as accommodating smaller volumes to suit a dramatically shrunken market (regardless of marginal recovery over the pas few years) requires investments that have to preceed marginal profits over the long run - provided they will even materialize. The ROI is likely to be marginal if positive in the first place, and any effort Fuji still puts in the film business is likely as much (if not, more) courtesy to existing users and staff as it is business acumen.
Have you plans to increase your pricing also??
PS : Your economy is wrong Mirko......you have to decrease pricing in poor markets !
Henning - with all the respect - but what is the realistic view at Fuji Film?
I have the need to guide your view : Fuji's staff captain gave strictly order to his film devision :
Eject!
PS : Your economy is wrong Mirko......you have to decrease pricing in poor markets !
No, Mirko's assessment is absolutely right.
He is successfully running two businesses for almost 30 years. He know's the market, you don't at all.
But your ridiculous statements about the economy of the photo film market simply prove that
- you have absolutely no economic knowledge
- you want simply a kind of slavery: The extreemly low prices from 20 years ago, and that all film manufacturers and their employees are working for free for you, without profits just to please your ugly German "Geiz ist geil" mentality. With your latest post you have made your expectation very clear.
Regards,
Henning
Do you feel better to support those companies that deserve it?
What Fuji made at last was like a " joke " for many photographers! = Increasing of film
pricing +30% and to the same time Fuji anounced further discontinuations!
Fuji is not a philanthropic institution that exists to dump cash into a dwindling business. Neither is Impex/Adox for that matter, but since film photography is their core business, they don't have much choice but to stick with it. Even then, your proposal of Impex/Adox investing to restructure their business belies little insight into the scope of such investments in relation to the future potential of the market combined with costs of capital and access to this kind of financing. It's just not feasible. Your entire argument relies on a request for an unrealistic sense of idealism that happens to suit your personal interests without making sense from a business viewpoint.Koraks I am not sure if most photographers will see price increasement and discontinuation as
a courtesy?
What about the general finiancial potential of Fuji ? It is excellent - right? What about the relation
of investments for film division in concern of Fuji 's earnings last quarter?
Your paradigma is wrong because there is no need for increasement of pricing (for the need ofFuji is not a philanthropic institution that exists to dump cash into a dwindling business. Neither is Impex/Adox for that matter, but since film photography is their core business, they don't have much choice but to stick with it. Even then, your proposal of Impex/Adox investing to restructure their business belies little insight into the scope of such investments in relation to the future potential of the market combined with costs of capital and access to this kind of financing. It's just not feasible. Your entire argument relies on a request for an unrealistic sense of idealism that happens to suit your personal interests without making sense from a business viewpoint.
Film prices need to go up for this niche market to become sustainable, which it is not at this moment, it's as simple as that. As a consumer, I don't like it, but given the choice between somewhat more expensive materials and no materials at all, I know what my preferred option would be.
What part of the market is not going to accept a price increase over $2.99/roll?There is a market wich will pay priced film! But this same market will not pay more for films!
From my point Fuji will not bailout of film production in total for the next 10 years! BecauseWhat part of the market is not going to accept a price increase over $2.99/roll?
Yes, there is. The financial situations of both Kodak and Ilford/Harman illustrate this. Both are kept afloat on the basis of shareholders who accept that there is no return on investment, only because the alternative is to lose their investments altogether. Adox/Impex clearly argues for higher sales prices in order to make the necessary investments possible to keep their business running - not even talking about expansion. While this is not explicitly stated as such, it seems likely that companies like Impex and currently also Ferrania rely to a large extent on the willingness of their employees to invest more time into their work than they are paid for, out of sheer passion for what they do (in the case of Ferrania, this is quite clearly visible, in the case of Impex, it is only implied). Fuji's price hikes and product discontinuations shows that keeping regular film in production, both color and B&W but Instax excluded, is not viable and certainly not attractive. With virtually every major manufacturer struggling to remain in this market, it is quite obvious that the current market prices are not sustainable. There are no slack resources left in this market whatsoever, making every manufacturer extremely vulnerable for inevitable occurrences such as economic downturns, supply interruptions or materials becoming unavailable in the quality currently used.Your paradigma is wrong because there is no need for increasement of pricing (for the need of
enough earnings of manufacturers)!
Interesting how you seem to contradict yourself within the scope of two sentences. I frankly don't have a clue what you mean, but then again, this is true 80% of the time.There is a market wich will pay priced film! But this same market will not pay more for films!
In parts perhaps - in parts it will smaller the volume of sales and earnings!
Gee, I wonder why they didn't think of that. You're stepping over the catch-22 remark I made earlier. Let's do it again: redesigning the photographic materials manufacturing business in order to become more agile, geared towards things like much smaller batches (while maintaining acceptable quality levels) and more flexibility in the quality of source materials, requires substantial investments in redesigning both products and production processes. For the big, diversified player (i.e. Fuji), this investment makes no business sense due to the uncertain and most likely marginal outlook of the market. For the smaller, more specialized players (i.e. Impex, Foma, and by extension even Kodak en Harman), access to capital and the costs of capital is not in line with their financial capabilities. You mentioned venture capitalists (I assume that's what you meant by 'RISC investors'), but they are unlikely to step into this business, except if they see some valuable assets that they can sell off in a short period of time, effectively disintegrating the company in question.And it is not my business to have a plan out of their dilemma! But it is indeed their business to solve their problem of inefficiancy!
Reducing costs - restructure of production process - what ever!
I'd like to see your analysis of the price elasticity of photographic film, supported by empirical data and a conceptual model capturing the underlying mechanisms. Lacking this, I remain with the fairly safe assumption that you've glanced briefly at an Economics 101 textbook at some point and now believe you thoroughly understand how specific markets work.The market will punish higher pricing with less demand!
Kodak is struggling. They were 'forced' by bankruptcy into the hands of owners who face losing their investments and therefore pray that their wobbly boat remains afloat. I am not at all convinced that Kodak has managed to restructure their business in the ways necessary to meet the needs of the photographic materials business. In fact, in their communications, they emphasize entirely different markets that they seem to have higher hopes for, suggesting that their commitment to photography is more a matter of necessity than of strategic thinking.Kodak made this job they were forced - in a good manner!
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