Pre washing film

[bdial]

10w40 synthetic, or whatever the manufacturer recommends.
Oops, wrong forum...

As for a pre-wash, the answer is "it depends". Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes not, sometimes helpful and other times not. It's not a recommendation of most of the film manufacturers. But it may or may not be a good idea depending on your particular combination of technique, equipment, film, film format, and developer.
In most cases it's not needed, especially for roll films in manual processing tanks.

For crud on the film, the most common source is airborne dust. Sometimes water is the culprit, and it can get there at at any point. Using distilled to mix and dilute your chemicals may help, and a short rinse in distilled at the end of your wash step also helps, especially if you have very hard water. If it's a chronic issue you may want to add filtration to your water supply, especially if you are using well water.

For air, make sure that the wet film isn't hanging in the airflow of AC or furnace vents. If you're processing in a bathroom running the shower on hot for a short time may help to increase the humidity and capture dust in the air.

For extreme cases you can buy/build/cobble up a drying cabinet. One easy and cheap solution is to get one of those hanging closet bags for long-term clothes storage. Hang the bag up wherever, put the film in (hanging from the bar inside) and zip it shut.

Scanners are another dust-spot source, usually it's on the optics rather than on the film, and unless it's very bad the easiest way to deal with it is spotting the image with the software of your choice.

 

[Harry Stevens]

I always pre-wash my Kodak and GP3 120 films because a purple world pours out after and how much dust get on it in the changing bag....Then there's all that handling.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Beating a dead horse here...

Bottom line, a pre-soak, if done correctly, will do no harm and is necessary in some situations (e.g., to keep sheet film from sticking together when tray developing). If you get good results without a pre-soak, then why bother? It's just a waste of time. If you need it (or really are neurotic about having one), then just make sure it's not so short that you get uneven development.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Rick A]

The choice is yours alone, do some tests, see which you prefer.

 

[Vaughn]

It is a nice way to bring the tank, reels and film to developing temperature if your room temperature is on the cold (or hot) side. But it is not the only way, of course.

 

[Harry Stevens]

It's worth doing just to annoy the people that say you shouldn't.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

yes
no
maybe
sometimes
depends
dunno
Heck, if I'm taking a bath anyway... might as well.
COMPUTER: How do you feel? SPOCK: I don't understand the question.

 

[Photo Engineer]

It's worth doing just to annoy the people that say you shouldn't.

Its worth not doing just to annoy the people who say you should.

PE

 

[Luis-F-S]

Should I pre was/soak ilford film before processing

Thanks

Yes. I presoak mine, but you can do whatever you want with YOUR film.

 

[Roger Thoms]

Depends, for instance l've been using Pyrocat HD lately and it calls for a presoak. With other developers like D76 and Rodinal I don't presoak.

Roger

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I did it when I first started out because I read or heard that you should. Then I heard or read that you don't have to, so I stopped. The only time I would prewash is if I would have to develop several sheets in a tray. This way they won't stick together when slipped into the developer.

 

[Craig]

Depends, for instance l've been using Pyrocat HD lately and it calls for a presoak.

Why the need for a presoak in Pyrocat, and not with other developers? Ilford says not to pre-rinse an doesn't have an astrisk after that statement saying "some developers only", so I take it to mean that Ilford films shouldn't have a presoak with any developer. I'd be very curious if there is some technical reason why Pyrocat needs a presoak that doesn't apply to other developers.

 

[Svenedin]

I'm not going to argue about a pre-wash or not (personally I don't pre-wash). The marks on your film which look like dust spots and fibres and could be picked up at any stage in processing. They could be from the camera, in your changing bag, on the reels, dirt in your tanks, in the chemicals, picked up when drying or on your scanner. I hate dust marks and I am useless at re-touching prints so I try to reduce dust as much as possible throughout the whole process from camera to print. Make sure everything is meticulously clean. Once the film is processed and dry you can remove dust that has contaminated the dry film but if it has stuck to wet film it is there for ever. Blow out your tanks and reels with compressed air before loading, keep your camera and changing bag (if used) clean. As soon as dry put your reels back in the tanks and put the lid on to keep dust out. If you are sca@nning your negatives you can use a tool in editing software to remove these marks, if wet printing it is much better to avoid as much as possible. A pre-wash will not necessarily "rinse off" dust. The emulsion becomes sticky extremely quickly and crud is just as likely to stick (permanently). Believe me, I have been there. I am now much more careful.

 

[sepiareverb]

That is the proble, some say yes some say no some have no idea, I was hoping for a 100% yes or no

Then read what Ilford has to say on the matter and don't doubt they've investigated it more carefully than 100,000,000 hacks on the internet.

 

[kobaltus]

I always prewash film. Maybe it does not help, but it does not harm too. And the cost of prewash is 00.

 

[Roger Thoms]

Why the need for a presoak in Pyrocat, and not with other developers? Ilford says not to pre-rinse an doesn't have an astrisk after that statement saying "some developers only", so I take it to mean that Ilford films shouldn't have a presoak with any developer. I'd be very curious if there is some technical reason why Pyrocat needs a presoak that doesn't apply to other developers.

Not really sure. Just spent a little time online reading up on Pyrocat and didn't find any explanation for the reason for a presoak.

Roger

 

[MattKing]

Pyrocat tends to be used very dilute. That may have something to do with why a pre-soak (which tends to swell the gelatin first) is recommended.

And arguably, the Ilford recommendation against using a pre-rinse relates only to those who use a rotary processor (see the ID-11 Fact Sheet and compare it with the wording in the FP-4, HP-5 and Delta 100 Fact Sheets). Certainly Simon Galley of Ilford/Harman posted here in the past that a pre-rinse was unnecessary, but unlikely to cause harm.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

That is the proble, some say yes some say no some have no idea, I was hoping for a 100% yes or no

Really. Here on APUG?!

Actually prewashing does nothing for the film. It is sometimes used to adjust the temperature of the developing tank before introduction of the developer. Sort of like making tea in a teapot. The use of a prewash/soak was virtually unknown before the use of rotary tanks.

 

[sepiareverb]

...The use of a prewash/soak was virtually unknown before the use of rotary tanks.

Or the internet.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Actually, I have posted this before. Kodak recommended a prewet before development in the '40s for the old tray process for roll films.

 

[Craig]

My Grandfather talked about developing film that way during WW2 in Italy in the back of a covered truck at night! He'd send his Sergeant out to scour the Italian drugstores for developing chemicals. Said the worst part was doing the back and forth agitation and finding out that the film was above the level of the chemical in the tray.

 

[LAG]

Then read what Ilford has to say on the matter and ...

... and you'll find out that it is a recommendation.

To my way of thinking, when this same seemingly irrefutable point of Ilford is given over and over again, It would be fantastic for once and "for all" to add a reference to the Ilford's reasons (suggestions) as well.

...Actually prewashing does nothing for the film.

False

... The use of a prewash/soak was virtually unknown before the use of rotary tanks.

Or the internet.

False or False.

 

[removed account4]

hi jeremy
i have pre-water bathed my film, but not all the time.
some swear there are reasons to do this
to swell the gelatin to absorb the chemistry more easily
to warm or cool the film down to the same temperture as the developer
or because someone told them to do it and that is the way learned..
i learned that way, pre-soak for about 1 min, then i worked for someone who
said not to do it, then i used xtol and kodak said not to do it then i stopped using xtol
and did it again with a fistful of other developers.
i don't know if it makes a difference, i never used a microscope or took notes .
and as you have seen from the responses in this thread ( 25 of them ) some do, some don't
some are adamant about both, some just go with the flow.
the main reason i do it is because when i have a tray of AH dye after i process my film,
i love pouring it into my developer and watching it disappear, like watching a print appear in
a tray of developer, its a magic trick i never get tired of.

 

[Steve Smith]

the main reason i do it is because when i have a tray of AH dye after i process my film,
i love pouring it into my developer and watching it disappear, like watching a print appear in
a tray of developer, its a magic trick i never get tired of.

Have you noticed that if you don't do a prewash, the developer doesn't come out dyed?


Steve.

 

[removed account4]

Have you noticed that if you don't do a prewash, the developer doesn't come out dyed?


Steve.

i have noticed that
but it is more fun pouring blue black fluid into a clear liquid and watcing it dissappear !
YMMV