Possible New Version of Harman Phoenix Coming Soon?

[mshchem]

I suspect that all the obvious people are in California, maybe less than last time. I hope it's a good product, I sure like Harman. I need to buy something from them, papers are always a good thing.

 

[AERO]

This subject is being shaken like a Terrier shakes a rat...... why not just wait and see??

 

[Disconnekt]

Looks like Harman is doing some photowalks next week, one with Fotoimpex (Berlin Photowalk) on July 16th

And one on July 19th with Ireland Analog,

Both have the blue background, so they may be announcing something then

 

[mshchem]

Berlin, all the obvious folks will be around, Silvergrain Classics, Karin Majorka, etc. These folks are pretty good at reviewing photography topics.
I would love to be there, I Germany!

 

[Nopo]

Is it just me, or have both pages been removed?

 

[AnselMortensen]

Oooooh....the intrigue builds!

 

[Disconnekt]

Thats weird, went to both of their pages to double check & they're both are still up, not sure why the links arent working. Probably a IG issue (as usual)

Edit: went to post the links again on here but they both still showed up as "page isnt available", so most likely some sort of link issue

 

[Disconnekt]

Yeah, its a IG/linking issue. Did the whole "copy & past" of both links in different tabs (closed & opended my browser) & still showed up as "broken links" but theyre both still up

 

[Agulliver]

Dare we assume that there will be some Phoenix II in use for those photo walks?

 

[Disconnekt]

Harman put up another teaser, on the left side of the it shows the outline of a 35mm cassette & a roll of 120, and one of the comments someone said "some servoyce in Poland has already spilled some ink"

 

[0x001688936CA08]

I wonder if Harman will include their colour films in the large format ordering thing they do every year?

Would be great to get some 5x7 colour negative, without having to give Kodak $30,000.

 

[Hunter_Compton]

Test images and a description of the film are included. Mentions are made of new dyes and couplers, new layer construct and increased exposure latitude. No mention of an orange mask.

 

[koraks]

Exciting! Although the sample images suggest that we're not exactly seeing a leap into e.g. Aerocolor territory or other contemporary maskless CN film.

 

[pentaxuser]

The black and white shot of a person carrying a cameras is that of someone who calls himself SHAKA, based in Dublin, Ireland .He is a prolific Youtube presenter of videos on film and seems very favourably disposed towards Harman. Maybe he is Harman's "walker organiser on the Irish walk day

pentaxuser

 

[abruzzi]

was Phoenix 1 priced at $20 CAD? If so, we can probably expect pricing elsewhere to remain the same.

EDIT: actually reading the reddit link the title says $19.99CAD, but the body says $19.00 CAD.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Exciting! Although the sample images suggest that we're not exactly seeing a leap into e.g. Aerocolor territory or other contemporary maskless CN film.

What it suggests is that they're currently managing to mask (+ the other various inter- and intra-layer effects) for contrast and partial colour correction, but not yet achieving full colour correction. Nevertheless, it's a huge jump technologically. I will be interested to see what they've done with the layer structure (and if they're trying to do innovative things with epitaxy to reduce numbers of layers).

 

[dcy]

The black and white shot of a person carrying a cameras is that of someone who calls himself SHAKA, based in Dublin, Ireland .He is a prolific Youtube presenter of videos on film and seems very favourably disposed towards Harman. Maybe he is Harman's "walker organiser on the Irish walk day

That's what I assumed when I saw his photo in the announcement.

 

[brbo]

Unfortunately, the leaked sample images certainly do not look any better than Phoenix I in any regard.

We have no reason not to believe that Phoenix II will be a step up, but those images must've been taken on Phoenix I and/or scanned in less than careful manner.

Can't wait the release date, hopefully with worldwide availability at day one...

 

[GabrielC]

It looks like it improved a bit, compared to the results I had with the first one, namely with halation, and the colors that seem a bit more tamed. Nothing earth-shattering, but better still. I do wonder if those are the best results, and how it really performs.
I'd like that they give more information about their roadmap, and what they've changed, but it's quite exciting nonetheless.
Of course they wouldn't be able to reach modern standards so quickly.

 

[albireo]

Unfortunately, the leaked sample images certainly do not look any better than Phoenix I in any regard.

We have no reason not to believe that Phoenix II will be a step up, but those images must've been taken on Phoenix I and/or scanned in less than careful manner..

I thought the same. Pretty underwhelming samples.

Based on those alone, the new Orwo 200/Opticolour 200 is a far more mature and interesting product.

It's puzzling some people are excited by this release while the Orwo 200 release is going basically unnoticed.

The power of marketing and oiling the right gears I guess.

 

[GabrielC]

Orwo does look better but it stands on a larger and previously present industrial base. It is "just" Inoviscoat doing a good job with extra capacity on top of polaroid negative production, if I understand everything currently.
Personally, witnessing the upstart of a completely new player, seeing each successive implementation, is really interesting and quite exciting.
Harman is also one of the most stable and integrated player, meaning that once it achieves to make a modern CN film, we know it will be produced continuously for along time. Orwo, on the other hand, is rather an unstable player, with bankruptcies, out of house production of CN film, maybe even dependant on Polaroid need (We could even have the same thing as with Fuji, with films out of stock when Instax demand went up). Distribution is also really a difficult matter compared to Harman well established distribution network.

I think the two can't really be compared as-is, but I am really grateful for Harman to try and make a European colour film that's currently missing, with Orwo lackluster development, and Adox currently completely absent and without communication on their "Colour mission" project

 

[Prest_400]

Quite interesting with the buildup and leaks, good that they have been able to iterate and get closer to a quality modern CN film.

Exciting! Although the sample images suggest that we're not exactly seeing a leap into e.g. Aerocolor territory or other contemporary maskless CN film.

Orwo does look better but it stands on a larger and previously present industrial base. It is "just" Inoviscoat doing a good job with extra capacity on top of polaroid negative production, if I understand everything currently.
Personally, witnessing the upstart of a completely new player, seeing each successive implementation, is really interesting and quite exciting.
Harman is also one of the most stable and integrated player, meaning that once it achieves to make a modern CN film, we know it will be produced continuously for along time. Orwo, on the other hand, is rather an unstable player, with bankruptcies, out of house production of CN film, maybe even dependant on Polaroid need (We could even have the same thing as with Fuji, with films out of stock when Instax demand went up). Distribution is also really a difficult matter compared to Harman well established distribution network.

I think the two can't really be compared as-is, but I am really grateful for Harman to try and make a European colour film that's currently missing, with Orwo lackluster development, and Adox currently completely absent and without communication on their "Colour mission" project

+1 on Gabriel's point. Harman started CN work, a year or so before releasing Phoneix in 2023? Then more than Orwo itself (brand name) the work is done in the Inovis plant which has been working with Color since Impossible Project and then the Lomo color films pre 2020. So the lead time is different.

 

[Lachlan Young]

If you read some of the marketing propaganda around the OptiColour 200, it suggests that they had an initial version that was partially masked, then having got wind of Harman Phoenix II achieving partial masking or equivalent, pushed to get the full masking couplers resynthesised by Inoviscoat/ Orwo.

 

[albireo]

Orwo does look better but it stands on a larger and previously present industrial base. It is "just" Inoviscoat doing a good job with extra capacity on top of polaroid negative production, if I understand everything currently.
Personally, witnessing the upstart of a completely new player, seeing each successive implementation, is really interesting and quite exciting.

I see. Personally I have no interest in who does it as a first in their own history, but who does it better, more consistently, and more robustly.

Harman is also one of the most stable and integrated player, meaning that once it achieves to make a modern CN film, we know it will be produced continuously for along time.

I hope you're right of course, continuity is a big plus here. I'm so disappointed with Adox and their film offer, just when I had spent money and resources to 'learn' their film, it disappears.

But In general, I don't care if it's Harman/Foma/Ferrania and the pedigree that's behind, if it's a new emulsion (and Orwo NC200 is) and looks great, I will be very excited.

 

[albireo]

If you read some of the marketing propaganda around the OptiColour 200, it suggests that they had an initial version that was partially masked, then having got wind of Harman Phoenix II achieving partial masking or equivalent, pushed to get the full masking couplers resynthesised by Inoviscoat/ Orwo.

I have noticed no real marketing "propaganda" behind Opticolour. Just very factual info on what exactly it is they have been doing, what went well, what went wrong. An acceptable level of transparency imo.

Hats off to both companies for a great achievement. In particular, imo, to Orwo, who very quietly came out with something that wipes the floor with Harman Phoenix version I.

Don't get me wrong: I will buy a lot of of Orwo NC200 AND Phoneix II if I like them both based on my tests. More new film from anyone is fantastic news.