Possible New Version of Harman Phoenix Coming Soon?

[koraks]

Any publicity is good publicity.

 

[khh]

EDIT: Comments from the Redditor state the store already put the product on store shelves, I imagine that if the post wasn't enough to get Harman's attention, that one probably did if true.
This person really wasn't wise to go and post about it, especially given they clearly knew they shouldn't.

It's really Harman's screw-up. If they want their product to be secret, they shouldn't be shipping unreleased products to random retailers without having some kind of NDA agreement in place.

 

[koraks]

It's really Harman's screw-up.

Not really. They want to sell the product. So they want to know people about it. The whole business around timing is less than a wrinkle on the surface of the water. Everything is going exactly as anticipated.

 

[pentaxuser]

Will it give a name to the launch day. That seems to be gaining popularity these days

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I hope it's available in 120...

 

[logan2z]

Will it give a name to the launch day. That seems to be gaining popularity these days

pentaxuser

Phoenix 2uesday?

 

[dcy]

I hope it's available in 120...

If I was Harman, I would not release it in 120 and then do another announcement "Harman Phoenix II, now in 120!" closer to Christmas time.

 

[dcy]

It's really Harman's screw-up. If they want their product to be secret, they shouldn't be shipping unreleased products to random retailers without having some kind of NDA agreement in place.

If I was Harman, I would rather make sure that every retailer has film on launch day and just accept the risk of leaks.

 

[Daniël Oosterhuis]

I'm wondering if Harman Red was launched, even if at least in part, to have a product ready that they could funnel whatever left over stock they have of the old Phoenix emulsion towards.
In which case, it'll probably switch over to PII silently once it's through, if Harman keeps it in their product line up.

 

[mshchem]

It's nice to see the interest. I hope it's enough to raise the entire industry a notch, including the good folks at Foma (and the others of course)

 

[warden]

If I was Harman, I would rather make sure that every retailer has film on launch day and just accept the risk of leaks.

Agree, the leaks are inconsequential, but production is not. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they’ve come up with. Two years ago, nobody would have guessed Harman would be making color film. It’s amazing.

 

[dcy]

I'm wondering if Harman Red was launched, even if at least in part, to have a product ready that they could funnel whatever left over stock they have of the old Phoenix emulsion towards.

I dunno... I suspect it's just a convenient side-effect. Harman might have just realized, as others did, that Phoenix is uniquely well suited for redscaling --- that the transparent base that causes so much grief for Phoenix as a regular film is ideal for redscaling.

The conversation might also have been "Hey... we made a fairly awful color film, but look how well it works as redscale; we should pivot to that".

If I was Harman, I would continue making Harman Red after Phoenix I is discontinued.

 

[koraks]

The conversation might also have been "Hey... we made a fairly awful color film, but look how well it works as redscale; we should pivot to that".

Well, the 'awful color film' assessment surely as no surprise as they knew very well what they were doing right from the get-go and also that the performance of this film would not be comparable to a regular CN film.

At what point they decided they could spin a redscale product off of this - your guess is as good as mine. There's a good chance that even within Harman they're not exactly sure who came up with it first and when it happened exactly.

If I was Harman, I would continue making Harman Red after Phoenix I is discontinued.

There's something to be said for this from an artistic viewpoint, but the question is whether the economics will work out favorably. In the end, EBITDA counts.

 

[khh]

Not really. They want to sell the product. So they want to know people about it. The whole business around timing is less than a wrinkle on the surface of the water. Everything is going exactly as anticipated.

I think that's likely too, but my primary intent was to communicate that there's no point to be angry at the employee posting the picture. If anyone was to be at fault, it'd be Harman.

If I was Harman, I would rather make sure that every retailer has film on launch day and just accept the risk of leaks.

Sure, but if I wanted it to be secret I'd package it in a separate container and make sure to clearly mark them as "do not shelf before xx date".

 

[koraks]

there's no point to be angry at the employee posting the picture

Yeah, I agree.

 

[dcy]

I think that's likely too, but my primary intent was to communicate that there's no point to be angry at the employee posting the picture. If anyone was to be at fault, it'd be Harman.

This reminds me of a moment in The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air where he did something he really wasn't supposed to (I forget what it was) and he says

"This is all your fault. You know I can't be trusted!"

 

[pbromaghin]

Agree, the leaks are inconsequential, but production is not. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they’ve come up with. Two years ago, nobody would have guessed Harman would be making color film. It’s amazing.

And anybody who suggested such a thing would be shouted down for its abject impossibility.

 

[dcy]

There's something to be said for this from an artistic viewpoint, but the question is whether the economics will work out favorably. In the end, EBITDA counts.

I have zero insight on the finances of Harman, but I note that Lomography and Kono both make a business selling redscale, and they have the notable disadvantage that they must buy CN film from someone else and flip it, and the result is a film with lower effective ISO and less tonality than Harman Red. So here we have a nice market where Harman can beat its two competitors in both quality and price.

However, none of that means that it's worth it for Harman to pursue. ---- If the market for redscale is very small, you can have a situation where it's worth it for a small company to go after that market but it's not worth it for a larger company.

 

[Disconnekt]

Well, Harman posted this on their twitter.

Add they posted it on their IG too:

 

[MattKing]

It wouldn't be Harman who screwed up, if the information came from a retailer, and the intention was that the retailers would have stock available when the product was officially launched.
Particularly if that retailer was not in the UK.
It takes a long time for that film to be shipped by boat and then distributed from East coast USA to a retailer in some place like San Francisco, as an example. Timing for these sorts of roll-outs is always a challenge.

 

[tykos]

It's really Harman's screw-up. If they want their product to be secret, they shouldn't be shipping unreleased products to random retailers without having some kind of NDA agreement in place.

making a big announcement like "this our new great film. Buy it and shoot it, you'll find it in your favourite shop in about 3 months from now!!!!" is suicidal, they need to launch it and have the shelves full on the same day. Same thing with youtubers and reviewers: they all need to have their material ready within minutes from the launch.
The store probably has some kind of nda, otherwise we'd already be having informations about this film from every other shop. This store simply broke it.

 

[Agulliver]

I have no doubts that the retailer would have agreed not to leak the existence of Phoenix II until cleared to do so by Harman. Now, whether they've breached the agreement or Harman authorised them to "leak" to get people talking is anyone's guess.....but I suspect the former because it would have made more sense for a fake leak to come from someone like Analoge Wonderland.

That said, the new teaser on Instagram from Harman Photo does suggest what we thought....that the leak is true and Phoenix II is coming sooner rather than later.

Whether they continue to manufacture original Phoenix and Red will depend on the projected market for both....and how easy/difficult it is for them to manufacture two different colour films.

With the original Phoenix campaign, they teased that something was coming for a long time.....but on launch day that meant the film was with retailers in sufficient numbers for interested customers to get hold of some, it meant there were social media content creators ready with videos about Phoenix test rolls as soon as the appointed hour came. That's good marketing.

 

[koraks]

Now, whether they've breached the agreement or Harman authorised them to "leak" to get people talking is anyone's guess.

I think it's an easy one:
1: the leak was not authorized.
2: the reseller is formally in violation with an arrangement (embargo) between them and Harman.
3: Harman is not going to do anything about this as this would not be in anyone's interest.

In layman's terms, this could be called a "happy little accident."

 

[mshchem]

Well it's on Harmanphoto Facebook account so it's a color product. Blue color package, it has blinking eyes, a little disturbing

 

[Disconnekt]

I think it's an easy one:
1: the leak was not authorized.
2: the reseller is formally in violation with an arrangement (embargo) between them and Harman.
3: Harman is not going to do anything about this as this would not be in anyone's interest.

In layman's terms, this could be called a "happy little accident."

Yeah, I think Harman will be peeved about another leak & just be like "ok whatever, it gets people talking about it/interested so "