Possible New Version of Harman Phoenix Coming Soon?
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It's really Harman's screw-up. If they want their product to be secret, they shouldn't be shipping unreleased products to random retailers without having some kind of NDA agreement in place.
Will it give a name to the launch day. That seems to be gaining popularity these days
pentaxuser
pentaxuser
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
I hope it's available in 120...
Phoenix 2uesday?
If I was Harman, I would not release it in 120 and then do another announcement "Harman Phoenix II, now in 120!" closer to Christmas time.
I'm wondering if Harman Red was launched, even if at least in part, to have a product ready that they could funnel whatever left over stock they have of the old Phoenix emulsion towards.
In which case, it'll probably switch over to PII silently once it's through, if Harman keeps it in their product line up.
In which case, it'll probably switch over to PII silently once it's through, if Harman keeps it in their product line up.
It's nice to see the interest. I hope it's enough to raise the entire industry a notch, including the good folks at Foma (and the others of course) 
I dunno... I suspect it's just a convenient side-effect. Harman might have just realized, as others did, that Phoenix is uniquely well suited for redscaling --- that the transparent base that causes so much grief for Phoenix as a regular film is ideal for redscaling.
The conversation might also have been "Hey... we made a fairly awful color film, but look how well it works as redscale; we should pivot to that".
If I was Harman, I would continue making Harman Red after Phoenix I is discontinued.
Well, the 'awful color film' assessment surely as no surprise as they knew very well what they were doing right from the get-go and also that the performance of this film would not be comparable to a regular CN film.
At what point they decided they could spin a redscale product off of this - your guess is as good as mine. There's a good chance that even within Harman they're not exactly sure who came up with it first and when it happened exactly.
There's something to be said for this from an artistic viewpoint, but the question is whether the economics will work out favorably. In the end, EBITDA counts.
I think that's likely too, but my primary intent was to communicate that there's no point to be angry at the employee posting the picture. If anyone was to be at fault, it'd be Harman.
Sure, but if I wanted it to be secret I'd package it in a separate container and make sure to clearly mark them as "do not shelf before xx date".
And anybody who suggested such a thing would be shouted down for its abject impossibility.
I have zero insight on the finances of Harman, but I note that Lomography and Kono both make a business selling redscale, and they have the notable disadvantage that they must buy CN film from someone else and flip it, and the result is a film with lower effective ISO and less tonality than Harman Red. So here we have a nice market where Harman can beat its two competitors in both quality and price.
However, none of that means that it's worth it for Harman to pursue. ---- If the market for redscale is very small, you can have a situation where it's worth it for a small company to go after that market but it's not worth it for a larger company.
MattKing
Moderator
It wouldn't be Harman who screwed up, if the information came from a retailer, and the intention was that the retailers would have stock available when the product was officially launched.
Particularly if that retailer was not in the UK.
It takes a long time for that film to be shipped by boat and then distributed from East coast USA to a retailer in some place like San Francisco, as an example. Timing for these sorts of roll-outs is always a challenge.
Particularly if that retailer was not in the UK.
It takes a long time for that film to be shipped by boat and then distributed from East coast USA to a retailer in some place like San Francisco, as an example. Timing for these sorts of roll-outs is always a challenge.
making a big announcement like "this our new great film. Buy it and shoot it, you'll find it in your favourite shop in about 3 months from now!!!!" is suicidal, they need to launch it and have the shelves full on the same day. Same thing with youtubers and reviewers: they all need to have their material ready within minutes from the launch.
The store probably has some kind of nda, otherwise we'd already be having informations about this film from every other shop. This store simply broke it.
I have no doubts that the retailer would have agreed not to leak the existence of Phoenix II until cleared to do so by Harman. Now, whether they've breached the agreement or Harman authorised them to "leak" to get people talking is anyone's guess.....but I suspect the former because it would have made more sense for a fake leak to come from someone like Analoge Wonderland.
That said, the new teaser on Instagram from Harman Photo does suggest what we thought....that the leak is true and Phoenix II is coming sooner rather than later.
Whether they continue to manufacture original Phoenix and Red will depend on the projected market for both....and how easy/difficult it is for them to manufacture two different colour films.
With the original Phoenix campaign, they teased that something was coming for a long time.....but on launch day that meant the film was with retailers in sufficient numbers for interested customers to get hold of some, it meant there were social media content creators ready with videos about Phoenix test rolls as soon as the appointed hour came. That's good marketing.
That said, the new teaser on Instagram from Harman Photo does suggest what we thought....that the leak is true and Phoenix II is coming sooner rather than later.
Whether they continue to manufacture original Phoenix and Red will depend on the projected market for both....and how easy/difficult it is for them to manufacture two different colour films.
With the original Phoenix campaign, they teased that something was coming for a long time.....but on launch day that meant the film was with retailers in sufficient numbers for interested customers to get hold of some, it meant there were social media content creators ready with videos about Phoenix test rolls as soon as the appointed hour came. That's good marketing.
I think it's an easy one:
1: the leak was not authorized.
2: the reseller is formally in violation with an arrangement (embargo) between them and Harman.
3: Harman is not going to do anything about this as this would not be in anyone's interest.
In layman's terms, this could be called a "happy little accident."
Well it's on Harmanphoto Facebook account so it's a color product. Blue color package, it has blinking eyes, a little disturbing 
Yeah, I think Harman will be peeved about another leak & just be like "ok whatever, it gets people talking about it/interested so
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