Pop emulsion making

[Peter Schrager]

Three different versions on a japanese paper
Homemade pop emulsion
Rod coat 2x
Brush coat 2x
Brush coat 1x

 

[FotoD]

Very nice!

Can you get smooth tones with brush coating? Or is rod coating always better in that respect?

The 2x brush coated print seems contrastier and more neutral in tone. Do you know why?

 

[koraks]

The 2x brush coated print seems contrastier and more neutral in tone. Do you know why?

I'm going to take a stab and argue that you'll generally deposit more emulsion this way. Note also the higher gloss.

 

[Peter Schrager]

Very nice!

Can you get smooth tones with brush coating? Or is rod coating always better in that respect?

The 2x brush coated print seems contrastier and more neutral in tone. Do you know why?

These are some of the variables you can instill while creating your own emuldion. Rod coating will always be sharper than brush but one can use these variables to your advantage.
Gloss depends on paper; watercolor vs. Baryta
I use fixed out older papers also...i'll post examples of that later
Any other questions please inquire!

 

[koraks]

Any other questions please inquire!

Some formulas as you use them would be great to hear about!

 

[Peter Schrager]

Some formulas as you use them would be great to hear about!

A) ammonium chloride .8g
gelatin 24g 250 bloom
Dh2o 200ml
in a 500ml beaker dissolve the ammonium then add the gelatin
let sit for 25 minutes

B) tartaric acid .8g
NaBiCarbonate .4g
Potash Alum .5g
Dh2o 30ml


C) Silver nitrate 10g
citric acid 6g
Dh2o 50ml
split the silver and the C.A into 2 separate vials 25ml each and combine right before adding to the above.

heat gelatin. mix to 122 degrees F.
Heat B to same temp and add to A
C heated to 122 degrees F. to the above in a slow steady stream during one minute
preferably you are using a hotplate/stirrer as it makes life simple
stir the above at 550 RPM for 15 m minutes
Finals added:
20 ml grain alcohol
20 drops foto-flo
20 ml glyoxol 4%
5ml thymol 2%

I like to let the emulsion digest for up to one hour at 122 degrees F
this will prevent little stars from forming on the paper.
I coat the paper 2x as I have not found the magic ingredient that will give me the contrast I like with coating once.
At times I have added CaCr207; cobalt ; and cadmium with varying degrees of success (one only!)
you can use a brush or a rod to coat....
I also tape the paper to a slightly oversized piece of glass for coating; then place on a rack to let harden
do not wait too long to remove as the paper will stick to the glass!!
using hangers with clips to let dry

 

[koraks]

Thanks so much; greatly appreciated. I also was generously sent @Cor's notes by himself some weeks ago after he had shown me some of his excellent prints. Having a go at this is on my to-do list; your formulas will undoubtedly come in handy.

Have you tried replacing the ammonium chloride with sodium chloride, by any chance? I'm kind of suspicious of the ammonium salt w.r.t. fogging. Have you found this to be an issue, at all?

 

[Peter Schrager]

no fogging issues with the ammonium salt....yes I have used NaCl with no problem...sea salt and get a quality product.

 

[koraks]

Thanks, that's very useful to know!

 

[joho]

A) ammonium chloride .8g
gelatin 24g 250 bloom
Dh2o 200ml
in a 500ml beaker dissolve the ammonium then add the gelatin
let sit for 25 minutes

B) tartaric acid .8g
NaBiCarbonate .4g
Potash Alum .5g
Dh2o 30ml


C) Silver nitrate 10g
citric acid 6g
Dh2o 50ml
split the silver and the C.A into 2 separate vials 25ml each and combine right before adding to the above.

heat gelatin. mix to 122 degrees F.
Heat B to same temp and add to A
C heated to 122 degrees F. to the above in a slow steady stream during one minute
preferably you are using a hotplate/stirrer as it makes life simple
stir the above at 550 RPM for 15 m minutes
Finals added:
20 ml grain alcohol
20 drops foto-flo
20 ml glyoxol 4%
5ml thymol 2%

I like to let the emulsion digest for up to one hour at 122 degrees F
this will prevent little stars from forming on the paper.
I coat the paper 2x as I have not found the magic ingredient that will give me the contrast I like with coating once.
At times I have added CaCr207; cobalt ; and cadmium with varying degrees of success (one only!)
you can use a brush or a rod to coat....
I also tape the paper to a slightly oversized piece of glass for coating; then place on a rack to let harden
do not wait too long to remove as the paper will stick to the glass!!
using hangers with clips to let dry

we coat A - B // then C ---- OR
add A to B and C all in one Then coat the paper ????

 

[FotoD]

These are some of the variables you can instill while creating your own emuldion. Rod coating will always be sharper than brush but one can use these variables to your advantage.

Yes, print 1 and 2 have quite different looks. I can see why brush coating would be preferable for certain prints, and vice versa.

 

[Daniel Stuefer]

we coat A - B // then C ---- OR
add A to B and C all in one Then coat the paper ????

A, B and C are solutions you make which are mixed together (per instructions given below) to form one, single emulsion (like any photographic silver gelatin emulsion), which can be coated onto any surface you like.

 

[Peter Schrager]

we coat A - B // then C ---- OR
add A to B and C all in one Then coat the paper ????

please reread what I wrote ...emulsion gets made first; digest for one hour then coat

 

[dwross2]

Hi All,
I'd like to submit my work on P.O.P. to the conversation. Hopefully, it's either of interest or help to the emulsion newbies among us.
d

http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/newcarousel/htmlclanslidegen.py?chapter=Intro

 

[koraks]

@dwross2 this is very much appreciated, thanks!

 

[Carnie Bob]

Hi All,
I'd like to submit my work on P.O.P. to the conversation. Hopefully, it's either of interest or help to the emulsion newbies among us.
d

http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/newcarousel/htmlclanslidegen.py?chapter=Intro

Hi Denise - we are interested in hand coated silver here in Toronto , as a matter of fact we are bringing Peter to Toronto this Aug to start our knowledge on this. Right now I so a lot of gum bichromate over Palladium, and or Cyanotype and am pining to do it over silver as I cut my teeth producing silver prints.
Our shop is very small but dedicated , kind of like the buggy whip salesman syndrome and because of this we get a lot of interest in hand made prints rather than the commercial viable ones we also do.

 

[dwross2]

Hi Bob. I think hand-coated silver is about to get its time in the spotlight. The creative potential with a medium that was standard for a hundred years has a lot of material to work with. Gum over silver gelatin was one that missed out because people started using commercial paper almost immediately. The hard supercoating on commercial paper doesn't work well with gum coatings. Handmade paper solves that. When I developed the "silvergum" process, I thought that would be my art form for the rest of my creative life. I think it's gorgeous. Unfortunately, I developed a severe sensitivity to bichromate and had to quit. That was a painful day. But bless art, there is always a new path to discover. Today, my heart belongs to handmade paper negatives. You and your students might consider a paper negative to handmade paper workflow. I think paper negatives (by way, perhaps, of a digital internegative) with POP could be marvelous.

 

[koraks]

Unfortunately, I developed a severe sensitivity to bichromate and had to quit.

You're probably amply aware of the fact that various pigment processes have arisen that can act as a substitute for gum bichromate. They usually involve a much more sensible sensitizer like ferric ammonium citrate (there's a recent thread here on Photrio that uses fish gelatin as a colloid). There's of course also Zerochrome SBq and Calvin Grier's Printmaker's Friend that exploit more contemporary sensitizer/photopolymer systems.

 

[dwross2]

You're probably amply aware of the fact that various pigment processes have arisen that can act as a substitute for gum bichromate. They usually involve a much more sensible sensitizer like ferric ammonium citrate (there's a recent thread here on Photrio that uses fish gelatin as a colloid). There's of course also Zerochrome SBq and Calvin Grier's Printmaker's Friend that exploit more contemporary sensitizer/photopolymer systems.

Thank you. I'd probably pursue them if I wasn't so taken currently with paper negatives. And of course, who knows? Squirrel!! So many things to play with. One that is great fun, and will probably be my next obsession, is tri-color sensitization of handmade film, after the manner of Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky. In my opinion, "Alternative Processes" photography needs to broaden its field of acceptance. I am all in on handmade prints, but handmade image capture needs a place to shine, too. Dry plate, wet plate, handmade film, paper negatives are mostly disallowed if they don't result in a handmade print. I get it, but I think it's a bit narrow.

 

[Carnie Bob]

Hi Bob. I think hand-coated silver is about to get its time in the spotlight. The creative potential with a medium that was standard for a hundred years has a lot of material to work with. Gum over silver gelatin was one that missed out because people started using commercial paper almost immediately. The hard supercoating on commercial paper doesn't work well with gum coatings. Handmade paper solves that. When I developed the "silvergum" process, I thought that would be my art form for the rest of my creative life. I think it's gorgeous. Unfortunately, I developed a severe sensitivity to bichromate and had to quit. That was a painful day. But bless art, there is always a new path to discover. Today, my heart belongs to handmade paper negatives. You and your students might consider a paper negative to handmade paper workflow. I think paper negatives (by way, perhaps, of a digital internegative) with POP could be marvelous.

hi Denise - we are certainly going to give it a go , as it would expand the services I offer .I will report back in the fall on the good the bad and the ugly of it.