Pocket instamatic battery help

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DQ
That's a possibility as well.
As long as humans are willing to spend money on something, someone will sell it.
Im pleased and amazed that the format is still viable and supported.

Changing gears,
Im being pitched an electronics repair job in Rocky Mount area. Any thoughts?

Mike
 

Donald Qualls

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Im being pitched an electronics repair job in Rocky Mount area. Any thoughts?

That puts you about two hours from Nags Head/Kitty Hawk area, IIRC (I drive by there every time I go to the Outer Banks). Lots of nice dunes and beaches and several lighthouses out there, and the Alligator River along the way; also a big forest/swamp south of the Alligator. Seems like lots of photographic opportunities, but I haven't been able to get back since I restarted shooting film.
 

bergytone

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Hey Mike,
Thanks for your thoughts. I did actually wonder about the dissimilar metal issue here. And the fact that brass will tarnish too. Plus the fact that the contacts are not a phosphor bronze 'springy' material. Will the brass relax enough to cease making contact? Probably the best thing to do when changing batteries is to use a pencil eraser to shine up the contacts before putting it back together. The brass I used is a sheet brass, that seems to b treated so it doesn't tarnish too much... the sheet I had is years old and is still shiny.

Regarding the screws, you are right, they can strip out. I put a warning in my instructions to not over tighten them. But surprisingly, they hold very well. We will see how stable the printed plastic is over time. Hopefully they won't split apart a few years from now... if they do, I guess I'll be refunding people their hard-earned cash. The better screw to use would be to use a screw with plastic threads. This is a #1 screw and I don't think the plastic threaded parts are made that small.

I think one of the appeals with my approach is the re-usability of it. It would be hard to justify the price for a one-time battery. Especially since the cells we're putting in there are not the same as the original. The original had something very similar to a 625 battery, but not as tall. It must have been a custom made cell. You cannot stack three normal 625 cells in that size package. Because I'm using smaller cells, it's capacity is less than the original, an therefore its life is shorter in use.
 

Donald Qualls

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The original had something very similar to a 625 battery, but not as tall. It must have been a custom made cell. You cannot stack three normal 625 cells in that size package. Because I'm using smaller cells, it's capacity is less than the original, an therefore its life is shorter in use.

The original had the cells on an angle, so a cell too large to fit straight into the compartment could be put inside the battery shell. This is the main reason for the shape of the K battery. I'm pretty sure people who've disassembled and repopulated original shells have used A76 or S76 cells, which are the same height and same body diameter (without the flange) of a 625.
 
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Boss,
How I answer complex notes is to do a cut and paste then interlace my comments within.

Thanks for your thoughts.
I did actually wonder about the dissimilar metal issue here.
(Good, it shows your paying attention to how the world works.)

And the fact that brass will tarnish too.
Plus the fact that the contacts are not a phosphor bronze 'springy' material.
Will the brass relax enough to cease making contact?
(Don't know. Lack of experience.)

Probably the best thing to do when changing batteries is to use a pencil eraser to shine up the contacts before putting it back together.
(Cleaning metals is always touchy.
An eraser is usually a good idea until you get into the super tiny, then a small crumble could end up being an insulator.
Murphy shows up everywhere.
For putting a shine in metals I like an item called a 'glass brush'.
This will leave a surface sterile. Look up
https://www.eraser.com/products/component-preparation-equipment/industrial-fine-eraser/
Stunningly good tools.
And a can of dry compressed air to remove the glass chips.
Fixed a lot of gear with this alone.
Brings up fresh metal and removes all trace of oxides.)

The brass I used is a sheet brass, that seems to b treated so it doesn't tarnish too much... the sheet I had is years old and is still shiny.
(That's weird,
I don't know what to make of it.
Brass and oxygen always turns colors.
On the other hand if it's working and you need more, then finding that material again may be a bit of a challenge.)

Regarding the screws, you are right, they can strip out. I put a warning in my instructions to not over tighten them.
(Good idea,
I too made up an instruction sheet for my batteries.)

But surprisingly, they hold very well. We will see how stable the printed plastic is over time.
Hopefully they won't split apart a few years from now... if they do,
I guess I'll be refunding people their hard-earned cash.
(At some point we are not responsible for clients equipment and what they do with it.
Years most likely not. Six weeks, yeah. It's an ethics call.)

The better screw to use would be to use a screw with plastic threads.
(Two way radio makers use something like a tiny wood screw to hold circuit board to cast aluminum chassis.
I can see that ripping out little tiny amounts of plastic with each twist.)

This is a #1 screw and I don't think the plastic threaded parts are made that small.

(I guess you run the openings through with a tap.
Learned that small threads don't print well.
For the samples in the photography I used a .4mm extruder, should I need to make more will be switching to a .2mm.
I usually print a tap hole and run the tap in and out to form the threads.
This requires a thicker shell.
So for this battery holder,
I print at 100% infill to give this as much bite as possible.)

I think one of the appeals with my approach is the re-usability of it. It would be hard to justify the price for a one-time battery.
(I have run into some resistance here.
Mine are not cheap given the level of hand labor involved.
I prefer to sell them in groups rather than one at a time.
On the flip view, the price is about right given inflation from when the OEM was making these things.
Weren't they a four or five buck battery in the 80's?)

Especially since the cells we're putting in there are not the same as the original.
(I think they were mercury cells, and today there is a national allergy to heavy metals.
Unfortunately they have a long history in electronics.
Mercury rectifiers, Mercury batteries, and switches.
Hard to find a liquid metal that's a replacement and non toxic.)

The original had something very similar to a 625 battery, but not as tall. It must have been a custom made cell.
You cannot stack three normal 625 cells in that size package. Because I'm using smaller cells, it's capacity is less than the original, an therefore its life is shorter in use.
(Based on no data than a gut feeling I am hoping for a service life of between 250 to 500 exposures.
That's a lot of film.
Hopefully they will last longer.
The test camera I have has an issue and I can see that the iris is physically bent and won't move, so taking current readings is pointless.
For the moment I tall clients that this is a 'by guess and by golly' number.
I don't have any good way at this time to get facts.

That's the news.
Mike
 

AgX

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We are also dealing with cells that have a fairly high internal resistance. Im using LR44's. So I weld them with a dinky little spot welder.
This solves any issues with internal contact resistance.

I was puzzled by this and it took me a moment to understand, as we use terms differently:
"Internal resistance" in electronics is applied to one discrete element. For a resistor that is obvious, for a capacitator less etc. For a an electrochemical cell that is the resistance within the chemical system that only allows so mucg discharge current, and in reloadable ones also the charging current. (We all experienced lasrger cells getting warm at high discharge.

What you refer too is the contact resistance if in a battery or in a plain stack of cells there is just mechanical contact between casings and poles. I see this point, but we also got electronic devices were no stacks are formed, but instead each cell having its own compartment, meaning even more electrical contacts in this mechanical way. And they still work.


Concerning spot welding: building a miniature spot welding apparatus myself is long time on my to do list. But so far, concerning making batteries from single cells I am afraid I might not get the welding parameters right and bring to much heat into the electrochemical system. But to be fair to myself I once even just soft-soldered tabs to Nicads to built a battery. It worked, but of course I did not do true testing on its effect on capacity etc. by this prolonged heating, but then again temperatures were by magnitude lower than at welding.
 
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Boss,
Wow, all the way from Germany. Been there a couple of times cycling in and out of Iraq and Kuwait.
Good place, good food. Neat and clean. You guys are doing something right.

Anyhow, once more into the cut and paste...

I was puzzled by this and it took me a moment to understand, as we use terms differently:
"Internal resistance" in electronics is applied to one dicrere element. For a resistor that is obvious, for a capacitator less etc.
For a an electrochemical cell that is the resistance within the chemical system that only allows so mucg discharge current, and in reloadable ones also the charging current. (We all experienced lasrger cells getting warm at high discharge.
(Correct. It's a term I got from the spec sheet.
Made sense so I used it.
Normally would not have thought of it.)

What you refer too is the contact resistance if in a battery or in a plain stack of cells there is just mechanical contact between casings and poles. I see this point, but we also got electronic devices were no stacks are formed, but instead each cell having its own compartment, meaning even more electrical contacts in this mechanical way. And they still work.
(Yes. The environment also works on it too. Heat, humidity, dust, and mostly oxygen.
All metals react to air. Oxides don't always conduct properly or at all.
A spot weld may not be 'perfect' in some extreme sense for for the life of the product the contact will stay good.
Is it good enough? Will it do the job? Yes.
Learned that if I can hit 97% of the design goal, that will almost always be good enough.)

Concerning spot welding: building a miniature spot welding apparatus myself is long time on my to do list.
(I tried to as well and failed at it.
Ended up getting a cheap one from Amazon and that's been fairly good.
It was marketed to the 18650 pack builder. (other projects for other times)
The one thing that was a surprise is it is sensitive to line cord length.
The shorter the power cable, the better it works.
Series resistance of the line had a direct effect on how solid the spots were.)

But so far, concerning making batteries from single cells I am afraid I might not get the welding parameters right and bring to much heat into the electrochemical system.
(How familiar are you with regular gas welding?
It's a function of metal mass and it's ability to wick away heat.
In this case we are looking for at a tiny spot .25mm across and not deep to fuse in my case the 'nickel strip' and the steel case of the battery.
I can feel a tiny amount of heat when the welder is used, and it radiates away quickly.)

But to be fair to myself I once even just soft-soldered tabs to Nicads to built a battery.
It worked, but of course I did not do true testing on its effect on capacity etc. by this prolonged heating, but then again temperatures were by magnitude lower than at welding.
(Agreed, the spot welder dumps it's energy in the mS range.
Where soldering takes several seconds.
The last thing I need is one of these things to explode in my face.
The spot welder has been reliable when used properly.
Did this with primary batteries (standard alkaline) just to see what would happen.
It's a "duplicate" for a frequency counter I have on the desk.
Some day when I get some NiCads will do it again with the proper parts.
Made up some alignment tools with the 3D printer to hold the cells and the nickel strips in place then zaped into place with the welder.
https://imgur.com/gallery/Irica1W

Proof of concept. Real world use, nill.

Be well there.
Mike in Virginia Beach VA.
 

bergytone

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I've got a hundred feet of Fuji microfilm and know how to process it for EI 25 and excellent tonality, or EI 50 and still pretty good (wish I could still get Copex Rapid, which would go to EI 100 with better tonality than Super HR at EI 25). Neutral density over the light sensor,
Hey Donald... I'm thinking of scooping up one of those 100 foot rolls of that Fujifilm super HR microfilm. You say you've got a good developer combo that softens the contrast. Can you share the details of this developer and process times/ temp with me?
 

Bill Burk

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Given the life of silver oxide cells in this application (several years of sporadic use; the meter only draws current when ....

I always wore out the batteries (when they were still available) by pressing the battery check button too much
 

Donald Qualls

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Hey Donald... I'm thinking of scooping up one of those 100 foot rolls of that Fujifilm super HR microfilm. You say you've got a good developer combo that softens the contrast. Can you share the details of this developer and process times/ temp with me?

I've used Caffenol LC+C, H&W Control (home mixed), and Rodinal 1:100 semi-stand, all with good results. Best speed was with H&W Control, but it doesn't keep well. Overall, most convenient is Rodinal(-alike) at 1:100, agitation every third or fifth minute, and time around fifteen minutes (from memory, don't have access to my notes while at work).

I always wore out the batteries (when they were still available) by pressing the battery check button too much

AFAIK, my Pocket 60 doesn't have a "test" button, I just point it at something dark or cover the lens and sensor, and half-press the shutter release to check that the low light warning comes on -- and only feel the need to do that if I haven't used the camera in several days or longer.
 
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