Please identify Camera [Picasso]

[Dwight Anderson]

The No 2 Cartridge Hawkeye loads from the front, and was made in Europe and introduced in 1926.

Ian

I think that could well be it, although given it's size, maybe it's a 2a. If it's a Cartridge Hawkeye, that would explain why there's only one tab on top.

 

[Helge]

I’m very impressed with the detective work and knowledge presented here.
All this from a photo probably taken with the cameras cousin. Or perhaps a smaller cousin given the resolution.
Would be interesting to do a bit of research on if there is a an opposite side? Paplo obviously is about to shoot or has just done so.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Picasso seemed to like using Russian cameras and he had no love for Germans. From such a fuzzy photograph it could be anything - not even a camera but a box of sweets.

 

[Helge]

Picasso seemed to like using Russian cameras and he had no love for Germans. From such a fuzzy photograph it could be anything - not even a camera but a box of sweets.

Did you read the thread?

 

[Telectroscope]

View attachment 327715
Rainbow Hawkeye 2a model b

The Rainbow Hawkeye 2a looks very nice. I note it has two circles upper left on the front. These cannot be seen on Picasso's camera [green rectangle]. Also, there are some details on Picasso's camera [cyan rectangle], possibly a nameplate, that I cannot see on the Hawkeye. Were there different versions of the Hawkeye?

 

[Telectroscope]

Would be interesting to do a bit of research on if there is a an opposite side?

Great thought! Gertrude Stein took this photo of Picasso and so if an image survives, it would be known. But I will look...

 

[Don_ih]

The Rainbow Hawkeye 2a looks very nice. I note it has two circles upper left on the front. These cannot be seen on Picasso's camera [green rectangle]. Also, there are some details on Picasso's camera [cyan rectangle], possibly a nameplate, that I cannot see on the Hawkeye.

The two circles are on the front of the camera - they are the viewing lenses. Your green rectangle is on the top of the camera and the cyan rectangle shows the viewing window, which you can see on the Rainbow Hawkeye. The cameras are a very close match, if not identical.

There were altogether too many versions of too many different box cameras. The camera I found is the closest match to what he has that I've looked at.

 

[Telectroscope]

The two circles are on the front of the camera - they are the viewing lenses. Your green rectangle is on the top of the camera and the cyan rectangle shows the viewing window, which you can see on the Rainbow Hawkeye. The cameras are a very close match, if not identical.

There were altogether too many versions of too many different box cameras. The camera I found is the closest match to what he has that I've looked at.

You are right! I had not noticed that. He is holding the strap and tilting the camera forwards. I think that is case closed; don't you?
Could you be persuaded to cadge a thick rolled up fag from someone and then replicate the photograph so you are holding your Hawkeye in the same way?

 

[Telectroscope]

I actually have some more information now as I have seen some negatives. The camera took glass plates (9x12cm). Does the Rainbow Hawkeye 2a take 9 x 12 glass slides?
Thanks!

@Don Heisz

 

[Dwight Anderson]

How do you know the glass plates are from the camera he's holding? I'm not saying they're not, just wondering how you matched negatives to a particular camera.

 

[Dwight Anderson]

None of the brownie or Hawkeye cameras took glass plates. You would be looking for a falling plate camera.

 

[Telectroscope]

How do you know the glass plates are from the camera he's holding? I'm not saying they're not, just wondering how you matched negatives to a particular camera.

It's a very good question! I don't know, but I am piecing together what little I do know. I should ask the question the other way round: The negatives we have from Picasso at this time included many 9 x 12 glass plates. Could he have loaded glass plates into a Brownie or Hawkeye camera?? Or, assuming not, what camera might he have used?
To make things a little more complex, it is possible the camera came from Olga (his Russian wife)

 

[Dwight Anderson]

As far as I know, Brownie and Hawkeye cameras are all roll film cameras, with the exception of film pack Hawkeyes that use sheet film, not plates.

9x12 plate cameras were very popular in that time period, but most of them are folding cameras, made by all the European manufacturers. There were also many falling plate box cameras in Europe, in the USA roll film box cameras were more popular.

 

[Don_ih]

Even if Picasso's negatives were glass plates, this particular camera has a winding knob that he's turning while looking at the red window - that's what he is doing in the picture. So this camera does not use glass plates. He may have been more interested in controlling focus and exposure, which would imply he used an Avus or similar camera.

 

[Telectroscope]

The Picasso Museum in Paris (the person in charge of documentary photographic collections) has suggested to me that the camera is a Kodak Six-20 Brownie Junior.

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I am no expert, but I think the Kodak Six-20 Brownie and the Kodak Six-20 Brownie Junior were introduced after 1931 (maybe 1933 or later), and their viewing lens is in a different place.

As knowing you have the wrong answer is almost as useful as knowing the correct answer, I want to tell them. But I want to check with the experts first. Am I right to say the camera Picasso is holding in 1931 could not be a Kodak Six-20 Brownie Junior or otherwise.

 

[Don_ih]

Kodak Six-20 Brownie Junior

I'd say that's not the camera.

 

[Telectroscope]

I'd say that's not the camera.

Couldn't agree more. I just want to be able to say definitively that it could not be the camera because the Kodak Six-20 Brownie was not made until a few years after 1931.
Then, I will propose your suggestion.

 

[Dwight Anderson]

The features on the six-20 brownie junior are incorrect. It opens from the back, the handle is diagonal, the top viewfinder is on the wrong side and it is too small.

2a Cartridge Hawkeye and Rainbow Hawkeye are basically the same, the Rainbow's came in a variety of colors. I believe they are closest to your example. They all had small differences over time, plus European Kodak's sometimes differed from US models.

Perhaps the photograph could be scanned with higher quality, it might show more detail of the front of the camera, I recently scanned some 6cmx9cm photos and could actually read the title of a book someone was holding 10 feet from the camera.

 

[Telectroscope]

The features on the six-20 brownie junior are incorrect. It opens from the back, the handle is diagonal, the top viewfinder is on the wrong side and it is too small.

2a Cartridge Hawkeye and Rainbow Hawkeye are basically the same, the Rainbow's came in a variety of colors. I believe they are closest to your example. They all had small differences over time, plus European Kodak's sometimes differed from US models.

Perhaps the photograph could be scanned with higher quality, it might show more detail of the front of the camera, I recently scanned some 6cmx9cm photos and could actually read the title of a book someone was holding 10 feet from the camera.

Great idea. I will see if I can get this higher-resolution scan.
Did any of the various Hawkeye box cameras take glass plates?

 

[Don_ih]

Did any of the various Hawkeye box cameras take glass plates?

I don't think so. At any rate, the camera in your photo does not use glass plates.

 

[Telectroscope]

the camera in your photo does not use glass plates

Oh yes, he is turning the winding knob.