Plaubel Makiflex Standard.

Nokton48 · Aug 14, 2016

AgX said:
It is even more than a standard bellows attachmend as it yields front standard movements.

AgX,
Yes it seems to be the front end of one of the versions of the Plaubel Peco Jr.
A very small precise 6x9/9x12 view camera. A lot of the Peco Jr accessories fit the Makiflex Bellows Adapter.

Nokton48 · Aug 14, 2016

EdSawyer said:
Here's a few pics of the Cambo with the Igor-source Xenotar as the viewing lens.

Hey Ed,
Thanks for posting! That Arca Swiss certainly is sa-weet. How do you like the 200mm Imagon on it?

And also cool is the Cambo. That Xenotar from Igor sure worked out for you! We each got what we wanted from that deal

norphot · Aug 14, 2016

Nokton48 said:
dag.bb,
Thanks for your post!

I've thought about putting RB67 lenses on the Makiflexes. The Fujinon GX'x and Pentax 6x7's seem possible too.
This adapter from Japan looks really interesting, and I wouldn't need to reshutter the lenses:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111810834091?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I can't remember, does the iris on the RB lenses work when the shutter is open?
I need to read further!

I think the adapter should work mechanically. However I think it would be difficult to reach infinity, as I the RZ/RB mirror box probably is smaller than the Makiflex one. The GX680 mirror box is possibly more similar in size. However by reshuttering you both save quite a bit of weight (several 100g) and also gain a lot of space for focusing and movements (important on the horseman cameras I use). An extra tip is that the RZ 180mm (old, not W-N) actually has only one cell (front one) with all the elements inside. This means you can use it with a focal plane shutter simply by extracting it from the helicoid and mounting it on a board somehow (it has M42 threads).

Nokton48 · Aug 17, 2016

OK I have acquired a 150mm F4.5 Fuji GX lens for a decent price.
I plan to remove the front & rear cells.
Now I am interested in finding a few Seiko #1 shutters.
From what I can tell, there were at least two Fuji lenses with #1 Seiko shutters.
One is the 210mm F5.6 W S Fujinon in Seiko
The other is the 250mm F6.7 W S Fujinon in Seiko.
Are there any other lenses that had Seiko #1 Shutters?

Anybody know where I can find one for a decent price?
The shutter can be broken, as I am using a focal plane camera.

Thanks!

Nokton48 · Aug 19, 2016

See above ^^^
Looking for info on Seiko #1 Shutters. What lenses took a Seiko #1?
Also looking for Seiko #1 Shutters (don't have to be working)
Thanks!
-Dan

EdSawyer · Aug 19, 2016

What about the RB67 lenses - they used seiko shutters. the RB's can be set and triggered manually... just a thought.

Nokton48 · Aug 20, 2016

Mamiya RZ 90mm F3.5: 118mm
Mamiya RZ 180mm F4.5: 131mm
Mamiya RZ 50mm F4.5: 148mm
Mamiya RZ 65mm F4: 150mm
Fujinon GX 180mm F3.2: 151mm
Fujinon GX 210mm F5.6: 174mm

I'm thinking they may well work, Ed. I'm going to investigate that possibility. I have purchased a 150mm f4.5 GX-M Fujinon lens, and will have to see how it goes with that. If it works with 6x8cm, then it should work with 9x9cm, I am hoping. I usually start by tripoding a Makiflex, then holding the lens in front against a board with appropriate hole, to see how it is going to go. Sometimes I use masking or duct tape to hold things together while I am testing.

I've heard the 180mm f3.2 GX80 lens is pretty good too

27015730912_e75cb8bfcc_o by Nokton48, on Flickr

^^ 180 RZ front cell hacked by dag.bb to fit Horseman Board

27064298606_14633df3e4_o by Nokton48, on Flickr

^^ Fuji GX680 cells hacked by dag.bb to Horseman Board

Nokton48 · Aug 20, 2016

Here is my new Makiflex Bellows Attachment and the Schneider 240mm F4.5 barrel Xenar lens. I added the Plaubel Tripod Head, that works well with the Makiflexes. And the long Cable Release is from my Sinar Norma collection.

2016-08-20 11.11.11 by Nokton48, on Flickr

^^ You can see the range of camera moves with the Makiflex Bellows Attachment.

Nokton48 · Aug 22, 2016

2016-08-22 15.12.55 by Nokton48, on Flickr

^^^
Fuji GX 150mm F4.5 press-fitted into the front of the Makiflex Standard. Won't fit into the Auto Makiflex because of the cables, smaller throat, etc. Shown focused at infinity and shows great promise. Bet I could use the 135mm GX and even the 125mm GX. And the F/stops are workable and the lens is still collimated as it came from the factory. Not bad for Sixty Bucks. According to the original Plaubel literature, 125mm was the shortest focal length that would go on the Makiflex. Now I do love my 120mm Angulon on this camera, but the rear of the lens does strike the mirror when focused at infinity. Focused forward (hyperfocal focus distance) it is fine in practical terms. But this new Fuji will be interesting to get going! I removed part of the back mount, cut the stranded connecting cable, and it fits tightly like it was made for it. Now to come up with something more permanent... WOW it is sharp on the groundglass. This is a killer lens!

Now I have ordered a 125mm f5.6 GX lens from KEH. Also Sixty Bucks.

Nokton48 · Aug 23, 2016

2016-08-23 20.19.43 by Nokton48, on Flickr

^^ Here's a couple of Seiko #2's I pulled from a pair of old 90mm RB67 lenses. Not elegant but they could do the job. The 90mm RB67 lens cells will not work on the Makiflex except as a Macro-only lens. And I don't need any more of those.

Nokton48 · Aug 25, 2016

2016-08-25 17.40.15 by Nokton48, on Flickr

^^
Here is the new 125mm lens. It focuses at about 20 feet when the Makiflex bellows is racked fully in. But by stopping all the way down to f45, infinity appears to be sharp on the ground glass. So it could be usable for distant shots in that way.

I can use it as it is, or think about mounting it on some kind of recessed board. It certainly looks very sharp and is very pleasant to look through.

EdSawyer · Aug 26, 2016

Looks good! Is there any advantage to using these vs say a 120 or 150 mm apo symmar? Maybe cheaper cost?

Dan Fromm · Aug 26, 2016

Ed, PMFJI, that's the hope. Lenses for the GX are offered on eBay for much less than similar (probably not equivalent, the LF lenses seem to have have more coverage) lenses for LF cameras.

I'm not sure what the reality is. There was recently a discussion on the LFPF about whether GX lenses' cells are direct fits in standard Compur/Copal shutters. The consensus, which might be a mistake, seems to be that they aren't. And there's the problem. Adapters ain't cheap.

In that discussion, no one pointed out that some LF and MF lenses in conventional shutters to be mounted on boards aren't much more expensive than similar GX lenses in incompatible unusable electronic shutters. Topcor/Horseman lenses and Fujinons, for example. Topcor/Horseman lenses are little known, Fujis are highly respected but still often sell for less than equivalent lenses from, in alphabetical order, Nikon, Rodenstock and Schneider.

Nokton48 · Aug 27, 2016

EdSawyer said:
Looks good! Is there any advantage to using these vs say a 120 or 150 mm apo symmar? Maybe cheaper cost?

Hi Ed,
Yes it's cheaper cost. I just bought an original Fuji Compendium GX Hood for $21, and a GX 135mm f5.6 for $45 (including shipping)! The 125mm GX f5.6 was $69 from KEH, which included shipping. I'm hoping that the 135mm f5.6 GX will focus to infinity wide-open, with the Makiflex bellows racked fully-in. We will see.

I bought a couple of Topcors cheaply ($30 each) but they triggered electrically on the VHR's, not sure how to make them usuable for my needs. But Yes the prices are great!

Nokton48 · Aug 27, 2016

Dan Fromm said:
I'm not sure what the reality is. There was recently a discussion on the LFPF about whether GX lenses' cells are direct fits in standard Compur/Copal shutters. The consensus, which might be a mistake, seems to be that they aren't. And there's the problem. Adapters ain't cheap.

Actually the GX lenses will screw directly into Seiko #2 shutters, but not Copals nor Compurs. My problem is that the Seiko shuttered lenses are fairly expensive ($200+). That's a lot just to get an old shutter. I don't even need it to open and close, just stay open and have a functional iris mechanism. The Fuji 250mm F6.7 WS (some of them), and the Fuji 210mm f5.6 WS, I have seen in Seiko #2 shutters. But they are expensive!

BTW I have tried (without success) to remove the front cell on the 150mm GX lens (with a band wrench) and I'm not convinced it will cleanly come off, as it seems to be glued in. And the whole thing is made of plastic and will create quite a mess. I'm really impressed that Dag.bb could get the GX cells out and into an inexpensive Seiko shutter (see below). It's really quite a feat. And so, for my uses, I'm thinking of using the GX lenses as they are, on the Makiflex Standard.

27064298606_14633df3e4_o by Nokton48, on Flickr

^^ Fuji GX Cells mounted in a Seiko #2 Shutter by Dag.bb. It can be done!

Dan Fromm · Aug 27, 2016

Its your time, your money, and in the end your pleasure.

For me, though, its hard to justify buying another lens that's functionally equivalent to one I already have, especially if remounting gymnastics are required.

Nokton48 · Aug 27, 2016

125mm Fujinon GX mounted on Plaubel Peco Jr Recessed Lensboard. Focused at infinity wiith room to spare. Made a few marks on the front ring, with my Band Saw A success! The front ring marks will easily clean up. I cannot remove the front cell from the GX shutter which is OK with me. So the lens is still as sharp as when it left the factory. This is NOT the same thing as my 120mm Angulon, which is a Dagor 6.8 lens.

GX 125mm Makiflex by Nokton48, on Flickr

norphot · Aug 28, 2016

Dan Fromm said:
Its your time, your money, and in the end your pleasure.

For me, though, its hard to justify buying another lens that's functionally equivalent to one I already have, especially if remounting gymnastics are required.

Of course this depends on the user, but if looking at 6x9, there are several GX and RZ lenses which have no functional equivalent in traditional lenses from Schneider et. al. For example retrofocus wide angles (RZ and GX 50mm and 65mm) with long flange distances (which allow for more movements on some cameras, or mounting on SLRs like the Makiflex), or especially fast multicoated lenses. See e.g. the GX 115mm, 125mm, and 180mm f3.2, and Mamiya RZ 110mm 2.8, 150mm 3.5 and 210mm 4.5 APO. Not to mention they are much cheaper than similar Schneider or Rodenstock products, and probably better optimized for smaller negatives. Large format is a different question, however, at least some longer lenses, such as the 180mm 3.2 and RZ 210mm 4.5 APO are faster than other options and should cover 4x5 "press photography" needs.

norphot · Aug 28, 2016

Nokton48 said:
125mm Fujinon GX mounted on Plaubel Peco Jr Recessed Lensboard. Focused at infinity wiith room to spare. Made a few marks on the front ring, with my Band Saw A success! The front ring marks will easily clean up. I cannot remove the front cell from the GX shutter which is OK with me. So the lens is still as sharp as when it left the factory. This is NOT the same thing as my 120mm Angulon, which is a Dagor 6.8 lens.

I managed to remove the front element "cleanly", but I had to use two lage pliers (or plier and vice) to hold the front element at its throat, and also cut through the shutter, so I could grasp only the part of it with the threads. However, if you can adjust the aperture, and have a focal plane shutter (and don't need high speed flash sync), this is obviously not neccessary. Also I would recommend testing the RZ lenses, which are very easy to remove (no glue), and seem a bit sharper (I posted a test of the 180mm RZ vs. the GX on the large format forum page). However the wide and normal RZ lenses clearly were not designed for movements (unlike the GX, which has them built into the camera), and have less coverage if going for larger formats.

Here is how I removed the RZ elements (drilled two holes in the front ring to make it easier to grasp):

And here is the only part left of the GX 180mm 3.2 shutter, after I unscrewed the front element(!):

norphot · Aug 28, 2016

Nokton48 said:
OK I have acquired a 150mm F4.5 Fuji GX lens for a decent price.
I plan to remove the front & rear cells.
Now I am interested in finding a few Seiko #1 shutters.
From what I can tell, there were at least two Fuji lenses with #1 Seiko shutters.
One is the 210mm F5.6 W S Fujinon in Seiko
The other is the 250mm F6.7 W S Fujinon in Seiko.
Are there any other lenses that had Seiko #1 Shutters?

Anybody know where I can find one for a decent price?
The shutter can be broken, as I am using a focal plane camera.

Thanks!

The older Fujinon lenses with Seiko shutters were not marketed much outside Japan, it seems. I think the 180mm, 210mm and 250 can be found in Seiko #1. Just look for the front facing x-sync contact and 1/400 shutter speed, as sometimes the Seiko shutter or W S designation is not mentioned in the listing. You can find some examples on ebay, such as this one for $138 including shipping. If you use Yahoo auctions Japan, for example through buyee.com, you can get them around $70-80. I also got my 180mm 3.2 for about $150 from YJ.

Dan Fromm · Aug 28, 2016

dag.bb said:
Of course this depends on the user, but if looking at 6x9, there are several GX and RZ lenses which have no functional equivalent in traditional lenses from Schneider et. al. For example retrofocus wide angles (RZ and GX 50mm and 65mm) with long flange distances (which allow for more movements on some cameras, or mounting on SLRs like the Makiflex), or especially fast multicoated lenses. See e.g. the GX 115mm, 125mm, and 180mm f3.2, and Mamiya RZ 110mm 2.8, 150mm 3.5 and 210mm 4.5 APO. Not to mention they are much cheaper than similar Schneider or Rodenstock products, and probably better optimized for smaller negatives. Large format is a different question, however, at least some longer lenses, such as the 180mm 3.2 and RZ 210mm 4.5 APO are faster than other options and should cover 4x5 "press photography" needs.

I hope I was clear that if doing what I think is silly pleases you then by all means do what I think as silly and be happy. I'll be happy for you. No sarcasm intended.

I haven't said that the joy of tinkering is worth a lot. It is, and I've known it m'self. Re that, see http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf and http://www.galerie-photo.com/baby-bertha-6x9-en.html

There are fastish lenses for 6x6 and 6x9. 80/2.8 and 100/2.8 Planars, both of which cover 6x9; 95/2.8 Heligon; 80/2.8 and 100/2.8 Xenotars, of which the 80 doesn't cover 6x9. I use a 100/2 TTH Anastigmat, ex-Vinten F95, and have a 100/2.5 Uran-27 that I don't use. Both are adapted to my 2x3 Speed Graphic. If I wanted one, there's the 120/2 SFOM for the SFOM 680/681. There's a variety of 150/2.8 lenses out there. There's a 180/2.8 Sonnar. There are 210 and longer f/4.5 Tessars. Y'r appeal to non-existence of fastish lenses that cover at least 2x3 is full of eels.

Retrofocus wide angles are another matter. The 1.75"/2.8 Elcan barely covers 6x6, is scarce, not all that good, and the shortest lens I know of that can be used easily on a 2x3 Speed Graphic. That aside, there are retrofocus lenses for the Pentax 67 (shorter flange distance than the RB/Z), RB/Z and, as has been mentioned, Fuji GX 680. For the six or seven (surely I exaggerate) people in the world still using Arca-Swiss Reflexes and Makiflexes and Pecoflexes they may be attractive. For the rest of us there are many alternatives.

Nokton48 · Aug 28, 2016

dag.bb said:
However, if you can adjust the aperture, and have a focal plane shutter (and don't need high speed flash sync), this is obviously not neccessary.

Dag.bb,

Thanks for the tips!

Here is what I have salvaged from the 125mm GX lens. I removed the shutter blades with needle-nosed pliers. So what i have left is the original intact lens mount, with a working iris mechanism. Plus shims and retaining ring! Really all I need, except for marking the f/stops somewhere on the shutter. I will probably paint it black, and cover open holes with black photo masking tape. And I'm going to grind off some of the excess brass on the shutter front. Purchased for $65 from Roberts Camera.

To the right of the GX lens, is one of my stripped-down 90mm RB67 Seiko #1 Shutters. I removed all excess levers, hardware, screws, and also the shutter blades, again with need nose pliers. So this one is also functional and ready to use. Purchased for $10 each from Columbus Camera Group.

I did buy the Fujinon 210 WS for $138 including shipping, I can live with that price. Thanks for the heads-up! So now I have a working complete original Seiko #1 to use for my purposes.

Retrofocus wide-angles are what I am lacking with this system. As you can see from my previous posts, I am well covered in all other image making areas! I don't think Pentax 6x7's will do the job. Experimenting and tinkering at low cost is also part of the fun!

GX Lens & Seikos by Nokton48, on Flickr

norphot · Aug 28, 2016

Dan Fromm said:
I hope I was clear that if doing what I think is silly pleases you then by all means do what I think as silly and be happy. I'll be happy for you. No sarcasm intended.

I haven't said that the joy of tinkering is worth a lot. It is, and I've known it m'self. Re that, see http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf and http://www.galerie-photo.com/baby-bertha-6x9-en.html

There are fastish lenses for 6x6 and 6x9. 80/2.8 and 100/2.8 Planars, both of which cover 6x9; 95/2.8 Heligon; 80/2.8 and 100/2.8 Xenotars, of which the 80 doesn't cover 6x9. I use a 100/2 TTH Anastigmat, ex-Vinten F95, and have a 100/2.5 Uran-27 that I don't use. Both are adapted to my 2x3 Speed Graphic. If I wanted one, there's the 120/2 SFOM for the SFOM 680/681. There's a variety of 150/2.8 lenses out there. There's a 180/2.8 Sonnar. There are 210 and longer f/4.5 Tessars. Y'r appeal to non-existence of fastish lenses that cover at least 2x3 is full of eels.

Retrofocus wide angles are another matter. The 1.75"/2.8 Elcan barely covers 6x6, is scarce, not all that good, and the shortest lens I know of that can be used easily on a 2x3 Speed Graphic. That aside, there are retrofocus lenses for the Pentax 67 (shorter flange distance than the RB/Z), RB/Z and, as has been mentioned, Fuji GX 680. For the six or seven (surely I exaggerate) people in the world still using Arca-Swiss Reflexes and Makiflexes and Pecoflexes they may be attractive. For the rest of us there are many alternatives.

I know there are older fast lenses available, but I specifically said I know of no other "fast multicoated lenses". I enjoy tinkering, but it's not difficult to see the functional benefits. To illustrate, and put some photography in this equipment thread, here is a photo I took with a modern multicoated 150mm Symmar adapted to a 6x9 Mamiya helicoid. I tried the same shot first with an original single coated Mamiya Tessar-type lens, but it flared all over. Similar benefits should apply to e.g. Tessar 210mm f4.5 vs. a Mamiya APO 210mm f4.5, without considering better sharpness and less abberations, not to mention cost. Comparing e.g. fast portrait lenses for 6x9, the 5-element single coated 150mm 2.8 Xenotar costs about $2000-3000, while the 7-element multi-coated GX 180mm f3.2 cost me about $250, including shutter (!). I've already pointed out the benefits of retrofocus wide angle lenses for 6x9 Horseman cameras, or other field cameras where wide angle movements are restricted, which are not few. The Pentax 67 lenses might be interesting if you have a focal plane shutter, but if the lens needs to be in a helicoid, movements would probably be restricted and mounting difficult, but I'm happy if I'm proved wrong - the 67 lenses would also be great on 6x9.

Nokton48 · Aug 28, 2016

I do like the delicate lighting on this one.
Makiflex, 180mm F2.8 Zeiss Sonnar wide-open, Foma 200, Microdol-X

Makiflex 180 Sonnar FOMA by Nokton48, on Flickr

I do have about ten exposed rolls (plus cut film) of Makiflex/Makina film to develop. Will try to get to it soon and post some fresh images. I love tinkering with this gear but I love using it too!

I really dig how the Sonnar "vaporizes" the background

Nokton48 · Aug 29, 2016

GX 135 Makiflex by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's the new GX 135mm Fuji Lens, purchased for $45, which will not focus to infinity on the Makiflex. Twenty feet out is about it. So it will be undergoing surgery and will go into a recessed board like the 125mm. And shown also is the new GX Compendium Hood, purchased for $21. Shown attached to the 125mm with Plaubel recessed board.

Plaubel Makiflex Standard.

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