Pink/Magenta Stain (not blue, which is a different issue)

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Photo Engineer, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    28,076
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    Hypo Clearing Agent helps remove hypo. The pink or magenta stain is from silver not hypo.
     
  2. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    6,180
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Might as well ask...

    For TMY-2, I use fresh (acid) fix, but no Hypo Clearing Agent.

    When I first put sheet film in the wash, it makes the water noticeably pink. I transfer the film tray-to-tray filling and draining the wash water in my 5x7 inch trays (and the wash water is about 20-degrees C). At each transfer the tray I drain is less and less pink. In about 20 minutes the water I pour out is clear and that gives me confidence that I have rinsed out the dye.

    Should I then continue to wash the film longer (perhaps wash for twice the time to clear)? Or (considering these are complete changes of water... seems like an effective wash) am I fairly clean after 20 minutes?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    28,359
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Use a retained hypo test solution and a retained silver test solution to get that information out of your film Bill.
     
  4. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    10,716
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    K,Germany
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Let's keep in mind that the pink stain has absolutely no negative effect on image quality.It's purely a cosmetic issue.get over it!:tongue:
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    28,359
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well, if the stain is nonuniform or varies from film to film, it can affect VC papers!

    But, what it does is give you higher speed at the same grain through either dye layering or 2e sensitization or both. And, it is easily removed.

    PE
     
  6. Kilgallb

    Kilgallb Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    454
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Calgary AB C
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I went back to some of my earlier TMX negatives (2005). I found several with the uneven pink stain. I did a refix for 7 minutes and rewashed and eliminated the stain. I have been more careful lately and now fix Tmx for 10 minutes and throw out my fixer more frequently . (Every 32 sheets of 4x5)

    Unfortunately, I'd did find two (out of a or 250) with the pink stain that also had the tell tale sign of brown stains.

    You cannot ignore the pink stain. Refix and rewash is the answer.
     
  7. Xmas

    Xmas Member

    Messages:
    6,425
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    In fresh fixer...
     
  8. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    28,076
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    And longer washes.
     
  9. JOR

    JOR Member

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    I understand that Cadmium was formerly used in some emulsions, suspected of being there to inhibit image regression (fading of the exposed but undeveloped image). Certainly, several sensitized material types, from more than one manufacturer, began to suffer from an increased rate of image regression at around the same time, mid-80s. Can anyone shed light on this?
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    28,359
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This is a complete non sequitur to the material at hand, as it relates to fading before development. This process is more properly termed "Latent Image Keeping or LIK". What you refer to is not related to Cadmium and in fact, the major companies quit using Cadmium in the '60s or '70s. It was used to control contrast and overall curve shape.

    PE
     
  11. Xmas

    Xmas Member

    Messages:
    6,425
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Yea and I use HCA as well.
     
  12. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    6,335
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I haven't read all the foregoing and can't even remember if I posted previously myself. But I have no problem with the residual pink stain totally clearing from TMax negs in just the first couple minutes of the final wash cycle. But I routinely use an alkaline fixer (TF4). What gives me problem is Ilford FP4. It retains about 4CC of magenta no matter what I seem to do, though this seem to diminish (fade) either after time or perhaps enlargement per se. So it might be possible to deliberately UV fade it. Otherwise I just factor it in whenever using FP4 for unsharp
    color masking. With ordinary usage for black and white prints, the effect of the residual dye is negligible.
     
  13. Old-N-Feeble

    Old-N-Feeble Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    6,457
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Location:
    South Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Haven't you heard? This is all in your imagination because magenta is not a color.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    6,335
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    It's a hue.
     
  16. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    6,335
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Get a clue.
     
  17. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    28,076
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    You said it!
     
  18. Xmas

    Xmas Member

    Messages:
    6,425
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Adequate fixing is way more important than developing + or - n. As is adequate washing.

    Fixing is film type, time, exhaustion and temperature dependent and under fixing looks just like bromide drag!

    I always fix by inspection in day light, acid stop or acid fix or 3 mins in plain hypo will kill the film sensitivity and when the milky colour disappears you fix for twice the time again, Tx and the deltas take ages to fix, relative to HP5 or Foma400, note Foma200 is slow as well. In a multi tank you need to time for the slowest film.

    Just don't worry about developer choice fix for longer...
     
  19. Andrew O'Neill

    Andrew O'Neill Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,814
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Location:
    Coquitlam,BC Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have witnessed this as well with HP5 sheet film when I use Pyrocat-HD, but not when I use Rodinal.
     
  20. lensmagic

    lensmagic Member

    Messages:
    153
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I am finding that it is more difficult to remove the pink stain from an overexposed negative than from a thin negative. Does this make sense chemically?
     
  21. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    8,440
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I would point out that aside from TMY-2, I've also had this issue with Ilford's PanF+ film, so it's not exclusively Kodak T-grained films, interestingly since PanF+ is supposedly a traditional grain film (at least to my knowledge) I wonder why it also seems to have the pink stain necessitating longer fix/wash times.

    I know ilford isn't your strong suit PE but any idea why this might be?
     
  22. OP
    OP
    Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    28,359
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It is either a sensitizing dye or an acutance dye that is being retained. It should not matter as to image density AFAIK, but these new dyes are a different breed than the old ones (like me).

    Try a mildly acid sulfite bath and see if that helps. Rewash and don't forget the Photo Flo.

    PE
     
  23. Xuco Martin

    Xuco Martin Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Location:
    Madrid Espa
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I doubt to leave, I use selenium toner rapid few minutes
     
  24. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    2,383
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I find HCA does a very good job of getting the pink out. Keeping HCA and wash warmish at 70-80F helps a lot.

    I shy away from fixing for any longer than is necessary as over-fixing can bleach away shadow detail (albeit very deep shadow detail).
     
  25. john_s

    john_s Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    1,236
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    A propos to PE's comment earlier about acid in some way being associated with the pink stain, would a simple solution of sodium sulfite (marginally alkaline) be actually better than HCA which is less alkaline?
     
  26. OP
    OP
    Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    28,359
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Apparently, the Sulfite is what does the job. It seems to destroy the dye.

    PE
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. If you have a Photrio account, please log in (and select 'stay logged in') to prevent recurrence of this notice.