Pink/Magenta Stain (not blue, which is a different issue)

Photo Engineer · Nov 28, 2010

Yes, of course. (I was thinking of just posting this, but decided you wanted the reason too! )

These dyes are very light sensitive and are destroyed by light. This is how they sensitize film AAMOF. They transfer energy from visible light into the crystal. Overexposing them just simply destroys them! However, the danger is that if there is Silver Halide or other chemicals "trapped" by the dye, they might darken and ruin the image.

PE

lensmagic · Nov 28, 2010

Thanks for sharing the reason! For me it is easier to tape the negs to a window for a few hours and let indirect sunlight do the job, than it is to employ lengthy fix, wash, hypo clear times. Am I asking for trouble??

Photo Engineer · Nov 28, 2010

Yes!

PE

Vlad Soare · Nov 29, 2010

I've noticed that all I need to get rid of the pink stain of TMY-2 is a longer wash. I use distilled water and Ilford's washing method, but before every agitation cycle I let the tank filled with water sit for ten minutes. This eliminates the pink dye completely.

However, this doesn't seem to work with HP5+ and TXP. These always remain pink, no matter what I do.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 29, 2010

I had a Kiev 88 and used 50 rolls of Agfa Isopan and developed with Ilford Phenidone.
My developer turned dark black green like petrol , 1 day later turned red and 12 hours later , clear again.
Most amazing experiment , I have ever seen.
PE , do you know the reason ?

Umut

msa · Nov 29, 2010

Vlad Soare said:
I've noticed that all I need to get rid of the pink stain of TMY-2 is a longer wash. I use distilled water and Ilford's washing method, but before every agitation cycle I let the tank filled with water sit for ten minutes. This eliminates the pink dye completely.

However, this doesn't seem to work with HP5+ and TXP. These always remain pink, no matter what I do.

Are you using hypo clear?

TXP shouldn't be that hard to clear. After 2 minutes of HCA with continuous agitation, it's at least 90-95% gone within the first minute of the final wash in running water.

TMX/TMY take about 3 minutes of the final rinse to become that clear. It's much easier to get the pink tint out of TXP.

It's been a few years since I've done any HP5+, but I seem to recall that a pre rinse helps (of course, Ilford tells you not to do that.

Vlad Soare · Nov 29, 2010

No, I didn't use hypo clear. I'll try that next time.
I do pre-rinse all films.

msa · Nov 29, 2010

That would do it...

I Just did two 135 rolls of TMY using fresh fixer and fresh HCA...

By the time I got them out of the HCA and did two quick water changes there was no noticeable pink tint.

Murray Kelly · Nov 30, 2010

Not quite sure why leaving the film in the fixer longer than it takes to clear is going to exhaust it. Once the undeveloped silver salts are gone, they're gone. I would think that tiny amount of Osmium isn't going to affect the fixer all that much?

Would longer in the fixer be detrimental to the sharpness of the image and negate the benefit of the dye. Maybe get used to the pink stain?

Murray

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2010

It is the high Iodide level in the emulsions! That exhausts the fixer very rapidly as it decreases the rate of fixing and "loads" the fixer with less soluble salts of Silver.

PE

Vaughn · Nov 30, 2010

Does the use of HypoChek detect the fixer's exhaustion when it is due to the Iodide in the same manner as with films with lower Iodide levels?

That is, is HypoChek still as effective when using these films as compared to use with films not having the higher Iodide levels?

jp498 · Nov 30, 2010

I think the tmax films have always required more fixing and washing time. I used it the stuff in the early 90's at school. The school used tri-x or ilford because it could be unloaded and processed within a class period of 50 minutes. They'd get me tmax for yearbook/sports because I wanted it and could develop it myself on my own schedule.

I have sometimes taken the cover off the combiplan or paterson tank after 2 minutes of fixing to inspect the film. Tmax film is usually still pink and cloudy at 2 minutes with kodak fixer. Other film like fomapan is clear within a minute or so. I usually use tmax film and fix it for 12-15 minutes and wash it for a good 30 minutes. I often develop two batches at once, and start development of the second tank to coincide with fixing of the first tank. That way I can get twice as much developing done at the expense of only 12-15 minutes. When development is done with the 2nd tank, fixing is done with the first. I'd rather not run multiple timers for fear of working off the wrong clock.

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2010

No test solution will detect the excess of Iodide. You can only test this by a clear time test on film that does not exhibit pink stain.

PE

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2010

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
I had a Kiev 88 and used 50 rolls of Agfa Isopan and developed with Ilford Phenidone.
My developer turned dark black green like petrol , 1 day later turned red and 12 hours later , clear again.
Most amazing experiment , I have ever seen.
PE , do you know the reason ?

Umut

I guess I cannot explain it. I can say that oxidized phenidone is pink in color but only under some conditions.

PE

lensmagic · Nov 30, 2010

The "time tested" method for determining fixing time is twice the time it takes to clear the film. Is there some multiple, presumably more than two, that could be applied to the TMax films to clear the film of the pink stain while in the fixer? Or, could the fixer be enriched (higher ratio of fixer to water) to more rapidly clear the film of the pink stain?

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2010

Any film that has a tendency to form pink stain in this manner is also subject to error with the "time tested" method of determining fixer time and fixer exhaustion. The very event that causes the problem obfuscates the test procedure and so a film outside the envelope must be used to determine the level of fixer exhaustion, and a staining film must be used to determine fix level. Two tests seem to be in order.

Of course, retained fixer and retained silver tests also help in this regard.

PE

lensmagic · Jan 9, 2015

TMax films--pink stain--hypo clearing agent

Based on Kodak's (and other's) recommendation, I would like to use hypo clearing agent to remove the TMax pink stain. Steven Anchell, in The Darkroom Cookbook, 2nd ed., gives a formula for hypo clearing agent, which calls for sodium sulfite and sodium bisulfite. How necessary is the inclusion of the sodium bisulfite for use on TMax films?

Axle · Jan 9, 2015

Personally I've found adding an extra 1-2 minutes in the fix along with Kodak Hypoclear gets rid of the pink hue to the film after development.

tkamiya · Jan 9, 2015

My HCA is just a solution of Sodium Sulfite. Some pink comes off during fix stage and some more comes off during HCA stage. During wash, remainder seem to come off. Has never been an issue....

Sirius Glass · Jan 9, 2015

TMax needs more fixing time than other films.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jan 9, 2015

I fix a full 5 minutes in rapid fixer, either the Kodak or Ilford versions, and that gets rid of most of the stain. The rest comes out in washing.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 10, 2015

I fix for 5 minutes in Ilford rapid fix. Rinse, then soak the film in water for about 15 minutes. That works for me.

Tom Kershaw · Jan 10, 2015

Andrew O'Neill said:
I fix for 5 minutes in Ilford rapid fix. Rinse, then soak the film in water for about 15 minutes. That works for me.

And for me. I'm not sure a HCA is really needed in film processing.

Tom

Rudeofus · Jan 10, 2015

This pink stain indicates retained Silver, not retained Thiosulfate, and the best way to deal with it is strong fixer and good wash. I would like to know where Kodak recommends HCA against pink stain, this would not fit into the common narrative.

NB23 · Jan 10, 2015

UV light takes care of the pink. Leave your washed negs on a table for a day and the pink is gone.

It has nothig to do with silver.

Pink/Magenta Stain (not blue, which is a different issue)

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency