Photography School Options - GASP! Stone might finally learn something!

[StoneNYC]

If you can get one, an internship at GEH is not to be sneezed at! And you can affiliate with RIT or Ryerson.

PE

What does it pay? Lol

 

[StoneNYC]

2 cents.

Unless you plan to teach or work as an archivist (for example), I really don't see the degree helping *that* much. If you want to work as a photographer, then as others have written, persistence, extremely good work ethic etc. will do more for you imo. Knowing how to play well with others also goes a very long way.

As for digital, real world is you can't just have 'the basics of photoshop' etc.. You need to be extremely proficient, if not, then you're going to have to pay someone to do your pp (which many do fwiw).

lastly….Gandolfi's offer ? I'd be making for Denmark and the Little Mermaid double time if I were you...

Can't exactly easily get a scholarship or financial aid to get myself to Denmark, nice dream, but unrealistic for someone with no money and debt.

 

[jp498]

So you can't afford a workshop that's maybe a few thousand but you fan afford school tuition that's 25,000 or more even with financial add the workshops are still cheeper?

I'm guessing the understory is "it's time to get your own place or get to school", which is pretty common and understandable.

 

[StoneNYC]

Stone,
I have spent almost 40 years in education, so I am not unbiased in the question of the power of schooling. Degrees are another matter. Paier is a good place. Hallmark was a very good place (pre-sale, don't know now). The state college system in CT is solid and a very good value. I think study in any of these places could very easily do two things. The first is that they will introduce you to new things, both in photography and in other areas of learning. This is never a bad thing, but you have to be ready and open to it. From your comments about not wanting too much academic learning, I'm not sure you are. That is not a value judgement, just an observation. The second thing that school will do is more complicated and also much more immediate. You will not really have any money or time for anything but school. In order to make the most of your investment you will have to dive in at the deep and start swimming right away- no treading water while you think about why you're there. That has to be done before you plunk down the money.

Degrees may be helpful, but it seems to me that they are most helpful in networking, not in themselves. The learning that those are supposed to signify is definitely worthwhile.

Good luck

Thanks,

I'm not afraid to delve in, and I would prefer it, to buckle down and do nothing but the school work for 2 years, I'm ok with that, I've already made that decision.

And I agree, I said it a different way already but, yes networking.

 

[eddie]

Stone WANTS to go to school...

Many of us (and I'm a big offender) have been critical of his previously stated disdain for technical testing, and his internet-based attributions regarding films/developers/etc. Now, he's looking into a more formal education. Whether it's an environment he thrives in, or rejects, can't be known until he tries. But, if he never makes the attempt, he may find himself, 20 years from now, thinking "what if..."

 

[StoneNYC]

The types of jones you mention here are NOT jobs as a photographer so they might require some kind of a degree.

So this goes back to the question I asked in my first response. Do you want to work as a photographer or do you want to work doing something else? If you want to work doing something else then sure a degree would be helpful, but if you want to work as a photographer a framed diploma on the wall is not going to get you work your portfolio is.



So you can't afford a workshop that's maybe a few thousand but you fan afford school tuition that's 25,000 or more even with financial add the workshops are still cheeper?



Now that all depends kind of assisting you are talking about. Wedding and portrait photographers use assistants all the time, and I know that plenty of weddings and portraits are taken outside of NYC.

So again I ask do you want to work as a photographer or as something else? If you want to work as a photographer then what kind of photographer? Without knowing those answers we cannot help point you in the right direction.

I want to be a photographer but I want to be a photographer doing work I would enjoy, weddings for example, I do not, at all, sick of them, I've done enough. Yes you can be a second shooter at a wedding, I've done many, but I don't want that life. SO if I can't find something involving a type of photography I will enjoy, Then I will have a degree that will also open other doors in other fields that I can fall back on as an option. Get it? Backup plan...

And yes, correct, I cannot afford a workshop, but I can afford $25,000 loan... Because they will give me that loan, they won't give me a $700 loan to visit GEH and take a class with Ron... That's how life is...

There's no studio assisting around here, I've called and checked they all say they can barely get by and don't have any assisting jobs.

Anyway, I'm doing this... It will be good for me.

 

[StoneNYC]

I forgot to mention one potential problem you may encounter; the difference between theory and practice. If you take courses in subjects you already have some knowledge, you may feel they are wrong. There (usually) are not - it's just part of the process.

For example, I had worked in the mental health field a few years before pursuing graduate studies in psychology. Sometimes we would be taught things that seemed patently wrong, compared to real-world situations. I had to remind myself it was education, which is necessarily general and built on research as well as field studies. It is difficult to teach to all potential situations, and the important part is the base knowledge. Applying that to the real world is a different concept. (Refer to Rodney Dangerfield's movie Back to School - the scenes in the business class. The analogy works if you ignore how the professor is being portrayed (since the scenes are used to build the plot and characters). Also, notice how Dangerfield does not take issue in classes where he has no previous knowledge or experience.)

So if something strikes you as wrong in class, think of it being much like discussions here regarding film development. Manufacturer suggestions are a starting point based on very well defined and (usually) standardized criteria. That is what you will be learning in any subject. It is not wrong, even if it seems to be compared to your preferences, work-flow, or experiences. It didn't take me too long to work this out, but I have seen others return to school and struggle with this concept for the entire program.

Yes, I know that it will be hard to nod and smile and just listen to the teacher, but I will do my best.

 

[StoneNYC]

Stone WANTS to go to school...

Many of us (and I'm a big offender) have been critical of his previously stated disdain for technical testing, and his internet-based attributions regarding films/developers/etc. Now, he's looking into a more formal education. Whether it's an environment he thrives in, or rejects, can't be known until he tries. But, if he never makes the attempt, he may find himself, 20 years from now, thinking "what if..."

+1

 

[eddie]

+1 to me being a big offender?

 

[StoneNYC]

+1 to me being a big offender?

+1 for no regrets

 

[Whiteymorange]

Yes, I know that it will be hard to nod and smile and just listen to the teacher, but I will do my best.

NEVER do that! Challenge the teacher, challenge the learning, but do it with intelligence, not belligerence. Nodding and smiling are for idiots. You might as well start drooling.

 

[Light Guru]

I want to be a photographer but I want to be a photographer doing work I would enjoy, weddings for example, I do not, at all, sick of them, I've done enough. Yes you can be a second shooter at a wedding, I've done many, but I don't want that life. SO if I can't find something involving a type of photography I will enjoy, Then I will have a degree that will also open other doors in other fields that I can fall back on as an option. Get it? Backup plan...

And yes, correct, I cannot afford a workshop, but I can afford $25,000 loan... Because they will give me that loan, they won't give me a $700 loan to visit GEH and take a class with Ron... That's how life is...

There's no studio assisting around here, I've called and checked they all say they can barely get by and don't have any assisting jobs.

Anyway, I'm doing this... It will be good for me.

Those jobs you mentioned earlier Are not photography jobs and yet you want to get a degree so you can get a job like that when you say you want to work as a photographer.

So you don't want to do weddings, that's fine but what do you want to photograph. Saying you want to be a photographer doing work you enjoy tells us nothing.

You don't need a $700 dollar loan to go to a workshop, you work save and then take the workshop That's how life is.

A you say there are no studio assisting jobs, but have you offered to work for free? Working for free is definitely cheeper then having to pay back a ton of student loan debt. You could also look into areas outside of where you currently live, if your willing to go elsewhere for school why not be willing to go elsewhere for actual photography work.

 

[StoneNYC]

NEVER do that! Challenge the teacher, challenge the learning, but do it with intelligence, not belligerence. Nodding and smiling are for idiots. You might as well start drooling.

Haha! My version of nodding and smiling will certainly be enough, I always question, always challenge (if you hadn't noticed) even as a kid my mom told me she used to get really scared whenever she saw my hand go up at some kind of event, she never knew what was going to come out of my mouth and something always did, I was a question, and always something the normal kid probably wouldn't ask. I'll do my best to make it inquisitive and not belligerent.

 

[StoneNYC]

Those jobs you mentioned earlier Are not photography jobs and yet you want to get a degree so you can get a job like that when you say you want to work as a photographer.

So you don't want to do weddings, that's fine but what do you want to photograph. Saying you want to be a photographer doing work you enjoy tells us nothing.

You don't need a $700 dollar loan to go to a workshop, you work save and then take the workshop That's how life is.

A you say there are no studio assisting jobs, but have you offered to work for free? Working for free is definitely cheeper then having to pay back a ton of student loan debt. You could also look into areas outside of where you currently live, if your willing to go elsewhere for school why not be willing to go elsewhere for actual photography work.

Yea I can't save $700 for a workshop and you want me to work for free for someone ...

Re-edit: you must have had some good privileges growing up to think as you do. Life is harder than that.

Anyway this is what I'm doing.

 

[Truzi]

Haha! My version of nodding and smiling will certainly be enough, I always question, always challenge (if you hadn't noticed) even as a kid my mom told me she used to get really scared whenever she saw my hand go up at some kind of event, she never knew what was going to come out of my mouth and something always did, I was a question, and always something the normal kid probably wouldn't ask. I'll do my best to make it inquisitive and not belligerent.

In the 7th grade our school had sex education after hours - it was a Catholic school, so parents would bring the students only if they wanted their kids to participate; it was not part of the curricula.
At one point they were discussing reproduction, so I felt my question about cloning was valid (and I apparently knew more about it than the instructors). I'll never live that one down.

Anyone who has seen some of your pictures could be forgiven for assuming the real reason you want to go to college is to live in a co-ed dorm

 

[NB23]

Why dont you buy one degree off the internet and apply for jobs right away?

I'm not as old as dirt, but I know enough that you don't need to become a college CUSTOMER to start working. Buy a 10$ Diploma off ebay and there you go. A photography degree will be a major waste of time.

 

[eddie]

A photography degree will be a major waste of time.

Do you have one? If not, how can you be certain it's a waste of Stone's time?

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

...but have you offered to work for free?

No. Nor have I chosen to live inside cardboard boxes under freeway overpasses, and eat my meals from garbage cans.

Pretty obvious choices to not make, those three...



Ken

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Why dont you buy one degree off the internet and apply for jobs right away?

[...]

Buy a 10$ Diploma off ebay and there you go.

Is that how you find your jobs?

Ken

 

[Photo Engineer]

What does it pay? Lol

How much does a college pay you to attend their classes?

You get a part time job and work as an Intern under a world class photography expert at a world class institution and have access to two universities that offer photography degrees. You can't beat that!

One intern just finished up and left, and two finished up and now have jobs AT GEH as part of the regular staff. Kinda nice IMHO.

PE

 

[Light Guru]

Yea I can't save $700 for a workshop and you want me to work for free for someone ...

Re-edit: you must have had some good privileges growing up to think as you do. Life is harder than that.

Anyway this is what I'm doing.

Nope no privileges. Just work for what I want and no debt.

It's obvious that you don't want to listen to others when they say there are other ways to there are other cheeper ways to get where you want to go then paying lots of money for a peace of paper, a peace of paper that nobody cares about when they go to hire a photographer.

You logic of saying you need a photography degree because all the non photography jobs you have tried to get want a degree is bogus.

Even if you do get a degree you will still probably have to do a unpaid internship aka work for free to get yourself in the door at some place. Why not try and do that before you have all the student debt to pay off.

Getting work as a photographer is about what is in your portfolio not a certificate on the wall. So the question is not should I go to school the question is what is the best way to improve your portfolio?

If you honestly think school is better then other ways to improve your portfolio then do it.

 

[Light Guru]

No. Nor have I chosen to live inside cardboard boxes under freeway overpasses, and eat my meals from garbage cans.

Pretty obvious choices to not make, those three...

People do unplayed internships and don't live in card board boxes all the time.

 

[removed account4]

...

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

People do unpayed internships and don't live in card board boxes all the time.

Only on someone else's dime...

Ken

 

[StoneNYC]

In the 7th grade our school had sex education after hours - it was a Catholic school, so parents would bring the students only if they wanted their kids to participate; it was not part of the curricula.
At one point they were discussing reproduction, so I felt my question about cloning was valid (and I apparently knew more about it than the instructors). I'll never live that one down.

Anyone who has seen some of your pictures could be forgiven for assuming the real reason you want to go to college is to live in a co-ed dorm

Lol!

This is a TINY school, no dorms, it's two multi story buildings essentially connected by a hallway and that's it.

Very hands on. And yes some of the students are usable in my modeling work, but I'm not exactly starving for models... So that's not my main goal, and have only ever been intimate with one model, that was her choice (when she jumped me after a shoot) and I try to stay away from that cliche, it interrupts my artistic brain...