Photographic Snobbery & Other Annoyances...

[David H. Bebbington]

Perhaps Holga users are photography reverse-snobs?

They are certainly people who pay a heavy price for spontaneity! With just a little more practice, they could get the same spontaneity with a camera that didn't deliver grade Z quality automatically every time.

 

[jstraw]

They are certainly people who pay a heavy price for spontaneity! With just a little more practice, they could get the same spontaneity with a camera that didn't deliver grade Z quality automatically every time.

Ah, an object lesson in snobbery. How approptiate.

 

[Roger Hicks]

... it seems like a false dichotomy to me...

Dear Katharine,

To quote Cath Milne, 'there are two kinds of people in the world -- those who divide things into two kinds, and those who don't'

Mind you, I also like, 'there are 10 kinds of people in the world -- those who understand binary, and those who don't.'

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Ah, an object lesson in snobbery. How approptiate.

Eh? What's snobbish about it? From a technical viewpoint, he's absolutely right.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Kino]

Eh? What's snobbish about it? From a technical viewpoint, he's absolutely right.

Cheers,

R.

Only if you desire (what some call) a technically "perfect" image!

However, it is exactly the effect the Holga photographer desires, so if you used a higher quality camera, you would have to spend an inordinate amount of time introducing optical aberrations, distortions and light leaks to the pristine image, thereby spending MUCH more time than a simple shutter snap through a coke bottle lens.

It's like arguing the "why we shoot decay" thread with a pronouncement that one should only shoot sound, intact buildings with a fine camera.



There, that aught to whip this back to the top of the thread list!

Another can of gas, Horatio!

 

[jstraw]

They are certainly people who pay a heavy price for spontaneity! With just a little more practice, they could get the same spontaneity with a camera that didn't deliver grade Z quality automatically every time.

What's snobbish about it? Oh, I dunno... Pay a heavy price? A little more practice? Grade Z quality? The value judgements shouting my way is superior to your way are flying fast and furious for shuch a brief post.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Only if you desire (what some call) a technically "perfect" image!

However, it is exactly the effect the Holga photographer desires, so if you used a higher quality camera, you would have to spend an inordinate amount of time introducing optical aberrations, distortions and light leaks to the pristine image, thereby spending MUCH more time than a simple shutter snap through a coke bottle lens.

It's like arguing the "why we shoot decay" thread with a pronouncement that one should only shoot sound, intact buildings with a fine camera.



There, that aught to whip this back to the top of the thread list!

Another can of gas, Horatio!

I have no wish to spoil any Holga user's fun, but any time I get a hankering for this kind of image, I use a Bessa R2a for which a vast choice of lenses with precise degrees of crumminess are available, in many cases (Russian) so cheap that you could assault the front element to your heart's content until you got just the right amount of flare and fuzziness and then get consistent results without light leaks etc.!

Regards,

David

 

[Roger Hicks]

What's snobbish about it? Oh, I dunno... Pay a heavy price? A little more practice? Grade Z quality? The value judgements shouting my way is superior to your way are flying fast and furious for shuch a brief post.

Well, if you really like taking offence, I suppose you're welcome. I found it a mildly amusing expression of opinion, which I do not see as the same thing as snobbism.

OF COURSE we all believe that 'my way is superior to your way', or we'd do it your way. But I find it terminally thin-skinned to take offence at Dave's remarks.

Cheers,

R.

 

[jstraw]

Well, if you really like taking offence, I suppose you're welcome. I found it a mildly amusing expression of opinion, which I do not see as the same thing as snobbism.

OF COURSE we all believe that 'my way is superior to your way', or we'd do it your way. But I find it terminally thin-skinned to take offence at Dave's remarks.

Cheers,

R.

I took no offense. I just commented on it.

"OF COURSE we all believe that 'my way is superior to your way', or we'd do it your way."

I can assure you that we don't all do that, anymore than we all eat a cheeseburger because we believe it's superior to a taco..or that we ski because we believe it's superior to scuba diving.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I can assure you that we don't all do that, anymore than we all eat a cheeseburger because we believe it's superior to a taco..or that we ski because we believe it's superior to scuba diving.

Surely we must believe it, for us, at any one time, or we'd not be doing it? I mean, I generally prefer to eat tacos because in my experience the vast majority of tacos are indeed superior to the vast majority of cheeseburgers. And if we have (let us say) 2 weeks holiday and a certain amount of money to spend, then we have to decide that skiing is indeed superior to scuba diving, or vice versa, because we can't do both. To argue otherwise seems to me to deny all value judgements.

Cheers,

R.

 

[xford35mm]

I think people should make the most of what ever equipment they can afford ,and just enjoy taking pictures to the best of thier ability.

 

[gr82bart]

why do they name boats?

More like yachts - we are talking snobby, right? Interesting thread - from 'glass' to the SS Minnow.

Regards, Art.

 

[jstraw]

Choices don't have to be value judgments.

 

[Black Dog]

waiting for the great leap forward

I think people should make the most of what ever equipment they can afford ,and just enjoy taking pictures to the best of thier ability.

Yes they should! "In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune/but this is reality so give me some room" (Billy Bragg)

 

[Roger Hicks]

Choices don't have to be value judgments.

Our world-pictures, and our uses of the English language, are sufficiently at variance here that we are never going to agree. If I choose A above B, then I value it above B.

Cheers,

R.

 

[gr82bart]

If I choose A above B, then I value it above B.

Hmmm ... I love eating a Big Mac every now and then, but I don't really value it more than a healthy meal or a fine sushi meal at Nobu. Sometimes what I value 1) I can't afford/have/get/whatever and/or 2) I don't care and choose something less 'valuable' anyway.

Regards, Art.

 

[percepts]

Monsieur Du Snob Fulbert Anselme ( about 1/2way down)

I get it, it's a bit like calling an inkjet print a Giclée print and not putting the accent in the correct place would be awfully vulgar

 

[Black Dog]

Like those foreign johnnies who mix coke and whisky, or call trousers pants....bit off, what?

 

[eddym]

Isn't there a Photoshop filter for the "Holga Effect" now??

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hmmm ... I love eating a Big Mac every now and then, but I don't really value it more than a healthy meal or a fine sushi meal at Nobu. Sometimes what I value 1) I can't afford/have/get/whatever and/or 2) I don't care and choose something less 'valuable' anyway.

Regards, Art.

Dear Art,

My argument is that 'value' is a function of time. There are times when a litre of water is more valuable to me than a glass of Laphroaig, and vice versa.

Cheers,

R.

 

[gr82bart]

My argument is that 'value' is a function of time. There are times when a litre of water is more valuable to me than a glass of Laphroaig, and vice versa.

Hmmm ... I don't know Roger, I'd like to think my values have a little more staying power than spur of the moment decisions. Perhaps there's a hierarchy of 'decisions' one makes where one's values are the over-arching umbrella of them all? Dunno really.

Anyway, how does this relate to snobbiness again?

Regards, Art.

 

[Kino]

I think people should make the most of what ever equipment they can afford ,and just enjoy taking pictures to the best of thier ability.

Sounds good to me...

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hmmm ... I don't know Roger, I'd like to think my values have a little more staying power than spur of the moment decisions. Perhaps there's a hierarchy of 'decisions' one makes where one's values are the over-arching umbrella of them all? Dunno really.

Anyway, how does this relate to snobbiness again?

Regards, Art.

Dear Art,

Some first-class philosophy there.

For the latter para... well, put it down to thread drift.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Sounds good to me...

f/63...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Sjixxxy]

- The idea that photographs must "say something". PLEASE. Most of the photographs I love most say nothing to me. I just like looking at them.

I think I really annoyed one of my photo instructors in college by consitently answering "Nothing" when she'd ask me what a ceratin photo meant, or what I was feeling that inspired me to shoot it, during our classwide critiques.