Photographer's rights in Britain

[tim_walls]

In the interests of full disclosure, I also posted this message on a corresponding thread on Flickr...

Well, I had a response from my MP (Hilary Benn, Leeds Central):

I absolutely take your point about all of us being free to take photographs and frankly I am very surprised to hear about the case you mentioned involving your fellow photographer in Briggate. [I had provided a reference to a specific instance of Police interference in my letter.] I am taking the matter up both with the Police in Leeds and the Home Secretary.​

(My MP is part of the Guvvmint, so I mentioned in my letter that I was aware he couldn't sign the EDM, but instead asked him to raise the issue with his colleagues in the Home Office.)

He then goes on to disagree with another of my points in the letter (a more general point that these advertising campaigns are about fostering a climate of fear and not about preventing terrorism,) but that bit's probably not directly relevant to this thread. He does say that he will be back in touch again.


Obviously, I'd rather he agreed with all my points, but I'm hardly surprised that he doesn't, so I'm not aggrieved on that; I'm pleased that he is going to raise the substantive issue about police interference with the appropriate people. I also have to give him credit for actually taking the time to read, understand, and write a genuine reply.


I think I'm going to be writing to David Cameron and point out that the way his MPs/party are responding to this issue means he may well be losing a life-long Tory voter in the imminent elections...

 

[Andy K]

Here's the reply I sent after receiving the form reply from James Duddridge:

Sir,

I now write regarding James Duddridge's letter dated 26th March 2008 (your ref RS50990).

I am sure Mr Duddridge is aware that this issue is currently a matter of great discussion among photographers (hobbyist, amateur and professional), both in person and on many photographic internet forums.

Having seen the exact same form reply to many other photographers from their conservative MPs I have to express some considerable disappointment in then receiving the same reply from Mr Duddridge. I had hoped that Mr Duddridge would have his own opinion on this matter and would not simply be taking orders from Conservative central office. As a result I would like to say that if Mr Duddridge chooses to put his party line first, then I can only respond at the ballot box in next month's local elections.

Again, I am extremely disappointed that Mr Duddridge got no further than churning out his party response rather than his own.

Sincerely.

 

[pentaxuser]

Done. My MP( Conservative) seems to have a reasonable record of signing EDMs. I await his response with interest.

pentaxuser

 

[Mark Antony]

Just posted a letter to Charles Clarke (my MP, Labour) asking for his support. I did notice the other Norwich MP Ian Gibson has signed.
We can at least try
Mark

 

[Peter Black]

Well I never got any response to the email I sent to my MP, but I've just checked the list of signatures on the EDM and his name is now on there!

Postman brought me a real live paper letter this morning, as follows: "Having looked over this I have gladly put my name to this EDM and if I can be of assistance in future please do not hesitate to get back in touch." Good old Danny Alexander!

 

[Baxter Bradford]

I too emailed my Conservative MP, Desmond Swayne - missing in action from the list, so await the standard email response in due course.

 

[pentaxuser]

I received a letter from my MP today. It's a no go. He will not be signing the EDM. It seems for two reasons: 1. It criticises the police and before he would lend his name to such criticism he would need to know all the facts of each case. 2. While he supports the right of any photographer to take pictures in public places he is unaware of any restrictions placed on photographers to do this.

Yes I could enlighten him but do not think it would do any good.

There seems to be a line here which is inhibiting MPs and that is "criticism of the police". I suspect Conservative MPs especially have a problem with this, in the same way Mr Blair was able to sucker the Conservative party to vote for the Iraq war because they stand for law and order and have this tradition of backing the armed forces.

I tried to focus his attention to clarification of authorities' rights and citizens' rights and the police's education in these matters without the distraction of criticising the police but I suspect that it is this that is looming large in MPs objections to signing the EDM.

Pity

pentaxuser

 

[Dave Miller]

I'm sure that my man will take the time to reply just as soon as he's cleared his response with David.

 

[Peter Black]

I too emailed my Conservative MP, Desmond Swayne - missing in action from the list, so await the standard email response in due course.

I got a follow-up email from the monitoring group behind the "They Work For You" website link. It was asking if I'd got a reply and whether I was happy with it, so I was able to give a thumbs up on both counts.

 

[charles_k52]

Just saw this article on the BBC News website this morning. Call me pessimistic, but I don't imagine it'll be too long before some ambitious (read: idiotic) congressman here in the States introduces a bill outlawing the possession and use of an unlicensed camera (in the name of national security of course). And, naturally, it will be named for the person who's life was irretrievably shattered by the actions of some hapless photographer wielding a big, scary device with lots of shiny knobs. And a bellows! (what's a bellows?) "No, no, no -- Sorry sir, you'll have to surrender that thing. And let's see some identification."

Camera control: the hotbutton issue of the future.

Ok, I'm pessimistic AND sarcastic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7351252.stm

 

[Mark Antony]

I got a post card reply from Rt Hon. Charles Clarke (Lab) that my concerns have been noted.
Can't see his signature on the motion though.

 

[sar-photo]

I went to Edinburgh yesterday - mainly to see the Ansel Adams exhibition, but I also took along my Bronica SQ and a tripod. Took a couple of photo's of the North Bridge from just down the road from the art gallery. There were two traffic wardens across the road from where I set up my tripod - neither of them gave me a second glance.

I then wandered down to the Scottish parliament building. I saw a policeman as I arrived and asked if it was ok if I set up my tripod. "Sure" he said, "As long as you're not on the street!". So I wandered about for an hour or so with my tripod and camera taking photo's (even got the cop in one!).

Then I went inside the parliament building for a pee and to see the debating chamber - didn't take any pictures inside.

All in all, a very productive and hassle free day!! Viva la Scotland - land of the free!!

Cheers
Simon

ps. I'm not Scottish - I'm a kiwi!

 

[RobC]

Is there anything in the Scottish parliament worth blowing up?

 

[Andy K]

Alex Salmond.

 

[thomsonrc]

Then I went inside the parliament building for a pee...

Cheers
Simon

ps. I'm not Scottish - I'm a kiwi!

At last I've discovered the purpose of the parliament building, but what an expensive over budget public toilet it is.

Ritchie

 

[thomsonrc]

Seriously though I live in Edinburgh and take street photos all the time, I have never had any problem from the police, security guards, or any member of the public.

Ritchie

 

[tim_walls]

Quick update... My MP wrote to the Home Office on my behalf about this issue, and I received the following response today:

Thank you for your letter of 2 April on behalf of Mr Tim Walls of (...) regarding his concerns about possible restrictions on photography in public places.

I can assure Mr Walls there is no legal restriction on photography in public places, and there is no presumption of privacy for individuals in a public place.(emphasis mine)

It is for the Chief Constable to ensure that Officers and Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) are acting appropriately with regards to photographic in public places, and any queries regarding this should be addressed to the Chief Constable.
However, decisions may be made locally to restrict photography, for example to protect children. Any questions on such local decisions should also be addressed to the force concerned.​

Armed with this, I shall be writing to the chief of the Met Police in London to ask for reassurance as to what measures they are putting in place to ensure their officers are cogniscant of the law in this regard, and also for details of any local restrictions as per the last paragraph.

In any event, I shall be carrying a copy of this letter with me to shove under the nose of any official who claims it's 'illegal to take photos' or such in the future. I'll scan a copy when I get home if anyone else is interested in having it.

 

[Steve Smith]

I'll scan a copy when I get home if anyone else is interested in having it.

I was thinking about asking for a scan of this before I got down to this line.

So... Yes please.



Steve.

 

[haris]

Quick update... My MP wrote to the Home Office on my behalf about this issue, and I received the following response today:

Thank you for your letter of 2 April on behalf of Mr Tim Walls of (...) regarding his concerns about possible restrictions on photography in public places.

I can assure Mr Walls there is no legal restriction on photography in public places, and there is no presumption of privacy for individuals in a public place.(emphasis mine)

It is for the Chief Constable to ensure that Officers and Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) are acting appropriately with regards to photographic in public places, and any queries regarding this should be addressed to the Chief Constable.
However, decisions may be made locally to restrict photography, for example to protect children. Any questions on such local decisions should also be addressed to the force concerned.​

Armed with this, I shall be writing to the chief of the Met Police in London to ask for reassurance as to what measures they are putting in place to ensure their officers are cogniscant of the law in this regard, and also for details of any local restrictions as per the last paragraph.

In any event, I shall be carrying a copy of this letter with me to shove under the nose of any official who claims it's 'illegal to take photos' or such in the future. I'll scan a copy when I get home if anyone else is interested in having it.

I didn't participate in this discussion considering it mainly for GB/UK citizens dealing issue with their parliament representatives.

But, I was following what is going on. So, now, when you, Tim, mentioned abut letter you got from your MP, scanning it and offering it to people interested in it, I wonder if that letter would be in any help to tourists who visit GB/UK, and if it was, could that letter or something simillar be accessibile to all, not only British people. In some downloadable form or some other way, I don't know about issues that kind of documment have. Exactly for reasons you mentioned, so tourists visiting GB/UK could also put it under nose of officials who eventually make them some problems. Not that I plan to visit GB/UK soon, but who knows...

And not only GB/UK, I wonder could something like that be done for photographers living/travelling into as many countries as possibile. That is to have simillar as this GB/UK "letters" for France, Germany, this and that European country, all Americas, Australia, Africa, Asia, etc... OK, I am realist maybe (most of) Europe, USA and some countries on other continents

Enjoy life.

 

[Steve Smith]

I wonder if that letter would be in any help to tourists who visit GB/UK, and if it was, could that letter or something simillar be accessibile to all, not only British people.

I don't see why not. The law is the law. It affects everyone equally regardless of nationality.

There is also this PDF available: http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

Which is a comprehensive guide to UK law written by a university lecturer in law.


Steve.

 

[snallan]

I'll scan a copy when I get home if anyone else is interested in having it.

Oooh yes please, that would be very useful.

 

[Bob F.]

<snip>
In any event, I shall be carrying a copy of this letter with me to shove under the nose of any official who claims it's 'illegal to take photos' or such in the future. I'll scan a copy when I get home if anyone else is interested in having it.

Veeeery interesting... If you like, you can attach a copy in Word Doc, PDF or an image format to another post here so anyone who wants it can get a copy without bugging you individually...

Nice one, Bob.

 

[haris]

I don't see why not. The law is the law. It affects everyone equally regardless of nationality.

There is also this PDF available: http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

Which is a comprehensive guide to UK law written by a university lecturer in law.


Steve.

Yes, I am avare of that and simillar web sites Steve.

But, when you have something like letter signed by MP that could be off record readed as maybe person who signed that paper will use official and unofficial influence against those who disobey what in letter is written. Going through official legal institutions when one find itself in situation in which photographers are more and more as days passing by takes too much time, money and nerves. So it is allways good to have some who has power as threat, even if that power will most likely never be used

 

[Baxter Bradford]

My MP has now written to me twice. Firstly with the seemingly standard reply and this week to say that after further reflection he has added his name to the list.

Let us hope that some common sense prevails here and that a groundswell develops - (sorry, had to drop the pun) even if it will be lost on digi-peeps.

 

[Steve Smith]

Well there are 170+ signed up now but my MP is sadly lacking. All I got was the standard 'we have received your enquiry' type of letter.

Tim - is your second letter also from your MP or is it actually from the Home Office? A Home Office letter would carry a lot more weight with police or security than an MP's letter.


Steve.