Photo-flo, bad advice, and working through issues.

Cholentpot · Jul 29, 2019

I've recently moved and have a different water supply. My old method of getting clean negatives out of the wash have been met with failure. Streaks, spots, and all sorts of issues. I tried everything from hanging at a 45 angle, to squeegees. All with mixed results. I've finally found something that seems to work.

In the past I've washed as regular, mixed some photo-flo in the take using a drinking straw, agitated lightly, dumped the water and tapped the reel to removed as much water as possible. It worked in the past. It seems this was the issue now.

Now I do everything the same, except I agitate a little more and I take the film out and hang as wet as possible. I mean I want to see rivulets of water streaming off. I'm even thinking of loading some water in a spray bottle and giving a bit more once it's on the line. That coupled with the 45 are giving me almost perfect negatives.

Just goes to show, advice I got and used successfully does not always transition.

ic-racer · Jul 29, 2019

For 30 years I have held washed 35mm film by clips at the ends and dipped in PhotoFlo. Start with one end in the photoflo and scroll it through and back again (2 passes) and hang to dry. Works every time.

Sirius Glass · Jul 29, 2019

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.
Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.
Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.
Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.
Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.
Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.
Remove the film from the reel [this keeps the reel from getting gummed up], and put it in a plastic container of properly mixed PhotoFlo for at least one minute, occasionally swirling the film around.
Poor off the PhotoFlo solution.
Hang the film.
If necessary blot off the collected liquid with the edge of a paper towel.
Leave to dry for 12 to 24 hours.
Take the squeegee and shove it up the @$$ of a politician that you hate.

Unfortunately not politicians were harmed in the typing of this post.

chip j · Jul 29, 2019

DON'T USE OLD PHOTO FLO!! You'll get white specks dried onto your film.

Eric Rose · Jul 29, 2019

Ummmmm, I've been using the same bottle of Photo Flo for years!

Cholentpot · Jul 29, 2019

ic-racer said:
For 30 years I have held washed 35mm film by clips at the ends and dipped in PhotoFlo. Start with one end in the photoflo and scroll it through and back again (2 passes) and hang to dry. Works every time.

View attachment 227692 View attachment 227693

What's your solution mix? This sounds like a good idea. Cup says 1.5ml, into how many ml of water?

Sirius Glass said:
Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Remove the film from the reel [this keeps the reel from getting gummed up], and put it in a plastic container of properly mixed PhotoFlo for at least one minute, occasionally swirling the film around.

Poor off the PhotoFlo solution.

Hang the film.

If necessary blot off the collected liquid with the edge of a paper towel.

Leave to dry for 12 to 24 hours.

Take the squeegee and shove it up the @$$ of a politician that you hate.

Unfortunately not politicians were harmed in the typing of this post.

I don't have a need for a gallon of photoflo sitting around and going bad. As for taking off the reels, I've been using the same ones for 5 years and have not had an issue. However I do wash and hand dry the reels every single time I used them.

Eric Rose said:
Ummmmm, I've been using the same bottle of Photo Flo for years!

My bottle might be older than me at this point. It's third hand.

markbau · Jul 29, 2019

I have my photo flo in an eyedropper bottle and add about 4 drops into the developing tank, fill with water, agitate a few times, take film off the reel and "snap" it to remove excess water and hang it up, has always worked for me.

MattKing · Jul 29, 2019

What the heck - this works for me:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/making-and-using-a-kodak-photo-flo-stock-solution.167790/

Rick A · Jul 29, 2019

My solution was to throw out Photo Flo and switch to LFN and mix according to instructions. Haven't had any issues for 30+ years.

RalphLambrecht · Jul 29, 2019

Cholentpot said:
I've recently moved and have a different water supply. My old method of getting clean negatives out of the wash have been met with failure. Streaks, spots, and all sorts of issues. I tried everything from hanging at a 45 angle, to squeegees. All with mixed results. I've finally found something that seems to work.

In the past I've washed as regular, mixed some photo-flo in the take using a drinking straw, agitated lightly, dumped the water and tapped the reel to removed as much water as possible. It worked in the past. It seems this was the issue now.

Now I do everything the same, except I agitate a little more and I take the film out and hang as wet as possible. I mean I want to see rivulets of water streaming off. I'm even thinking of loading some water in a spray bottle and giving a bit more once it's on the line. That coupled with the 45 are giving me almost perfect negatives.

Just goes to show, advice I got and used successfully does not always transition.

my adevise:use photoflo sparingly not 1+200;better1+400 and finish with a short dip in distilled water before drying.

removed account4 · Jul 29, 2019

markbau said:
I have my photo flo in an eyedropper bottle and add about 4 drops into the developing tank, fill with water, agitate a few times, take film off the reel and "snap" it to remove excess water and hang it up, has always worked for me.

I do something similar. No eyedropper but I use it sparingly, a couple drops in the tank, with water ( or a tray ) the film goes in it, then gets hung up. Never had a problem.

Eric Rose said:
Ummmmm, I've been using the same bottle of Photo Flo for years!

I finished a bottle from the late 70s just recently .

Sirius Glass · Jul 29, 2019

Cholentpot said:
What's your solution mix? This sounds like a good idea. Cup says 1.5ml, into how many ml of water?

I don't have a need for a gallon of photoflo sitting around and going bad. As for taking off the reels, I've been using the same ones for 5 years and have not had an issue. However I do wash and hand dry the reels every single time I used them.

My bottle might be older than me at this point. It's third hand.

200:1 which comes out to 1000ml [1 liter] to 5ml PhotoFlo. This worked for me in the Los Angeles area and the Washington DC area water.

Cholentpot · Jul 29, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
200:1 which comes out to 1000ml [1 liter] to 5ml PhotoFlo. This worked for me in the Los Angeles area and the Washington DC area water.

Good to know.

Trask · Jul 29, 2019

I empty the tank, rinse it thoroughly, pour in a half inch of distilled water, then add 2 drops LFN and one drop PF, then add more distilled water to level desired, then put reel back in and let soak maybe five minutes. Remove reel, unspool film, place Pace film hangers at each end, then see-saw the entire length of film into the tank, then hang to dry, no wiping, bottom half of half gallon milk jug placed below film to catch run-off I toss the LFN/PF mixture when done.

As for a spray bottle, I have done that when needed — it can be helpful if you really want to ensure the whole film strip is fully wetted, to ensure consistent draining.

Arklatexian · Jul 29, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Mix PhotoFlo according to the instructions.

Remove the film from the reel [this keeps the reel from getting gummed up], and put it in a plastic container of properly mixed PhotoFlo for at least one minute, occasionally swirling the film around.

Poor off the PhotoFlo solution.

Hang the film.

If necessary blot off the collected liquid with the edge of a paper towel.

Leave to dry for 12 to 24 hours.

Take the squeegee and shove it up the @$$ of a politician that you hate.

Unfortunately not politicians were harmed in the typing of this post.

Sirius you could have taken your instructions right out of the Jobo Instruction Book and maybe did. I religiously keep any photo-flo, etc. AWAY from the insides of my developing tanks and reels (just as Jobo says regarding their equipment). If I accidentally get some on my stainless steel reels. I wash them well and then "boil" them. All in the cause of having processing chemicals act consistently. I have control over this stuff and don't have control over the sunshine, clouds, etc. when I am taking pictures........Regards!

Cholentpot · Jul 29, 2019

Trask said:
I empty the tank, rinse it thoroughly, pour in a half inch of distilled water, then add 2 drops LFN and one drop PF, then add more distilled water to level desired, then put reel back in and let soak maybe five minutes. Remove reel, unspool film, place Pace film hangers at each end, then see-saw the entire length of film into the tank, then hang to dry, no wiping, bottom half of half gallon milk jug placed below film to catch run-off I toss the LFN/PF mixture when done.

As for a spray bottle, I have done that when needed — it can be helpful if you really want to ensure the whole film strip is fully wetted, to ensure consistent draining.

I just tried the seesaw method on a roll of stubborn 16mm and it seemed to work. Too bad the roll had other issues. Also nice to see that the spray bottle has been used.

mshchem · Jul 29, 2019

Go to a drug store or animal health store and buy some disposable syringes. Last 15 years I've had a deionizing (RO) system so my water is pretty good. Premier used to make lint free professional photo wipes. I don't touch film with anything any more. But a proper Kim-Wipe or other lab type wipe can be used on the non-emulsion side, barely touching.

I use Photoflo on the reel, only because I tend to drop wet film. It does effect plastic reels, but I wash the reels in very hot water after removing the film. The reels are exposed to the very dilute Photoflo for only 2 to 3 minutes. I also shake everything off the reel before removing the film, this works better than a squeegee, and doesn't scratch the crap out of your film.

Hang and dry in a cool still room, no heat.

This has worked for me. When I was a kid someone sold me a Paterson film squeegee, those things get contaminated and ruin film.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jul 30, 2019

I would guess something like this to dry the film would be very effective in minimising streaks and spots:

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...f6b95/1549505865254/_DSC4483.jpg?format=1500w

Has anyone used it?

tokam · Jul 30, 2019

markbau said:
I have my photo flo in an eyedropper bottle and add about 4 drops into the developing tank, fill with water, agitate a few times, take film off the reel and "snap" it to remove excess water and hang it up, has always worked for me.

+1 for both the amount of photo flo and the whip snap.
2-3 drops into a Patterson tank and you don't want a huge froth of bubbles. A quick whip snap of the film will remove all but the tiniest of drops from the non- emulsion side of the film.
The water that sheets on the emulsion side of the film should evaporate evenly leaving no marks.

Pat Erson · Jul 30, 2019

The best piece of advice i've been given (in fact I discovered it myself...) is as soon as your wetting agent meets your well-washed films you have to adapt the mentality of a bomb squad member. Act slowly and make no sudden move. Pour the wetting agent carefully into the tank, agitate the tank carefully to spread it evenly.
After 2 minutes I pick a reel carefully and I chase most of the water out of it carefully. Then I carefully remove the film from its reel and I carefully hang it to dry.

"Carefully" is the key word. You don't want to rush things and you certainly don't want to make the wetting agent foam, otherwise a disaster awaits you. I got much better results when I switched to Ilford wetting agent which is a fine product imo. I currently use Tetenal's (Mirasol) which is equally fine... as soon as I doubled the recommended dilution for it! I first used it at a 1 per 400 dilution and after the 1st roll of the tank hung I noticed sth was wrong (= not enough agent). So I added another dose of Mirasol (which made it a 1 per 200 dilution) and the next negs came out fine.
Another advice : if the tank foams, stop what you're doing and wait for the foam to disappear.

And like Mshchem I use a syringe to precisely measure the quantity of w.a. I need.

bdial · Jul 30, 2019

I mix my photo-flo with distilled, mixed in batches with 1/200 gal of photo-flo into a gallon jug of distilled. I've not had problems with it going bad, but have had problems with the thin plastic jug developing pinhole leaks. So after mixing I decant it into a heavy-duty container.
I treat the film on the reel (stainless), then rinse the reel, this has worked well for me.

bvy · Jul 30, 2019

I rinse the film in tap water but before I go to Photo-Flo, I soak the film in plain distilled water for several minutes. Then...

With Photo-Flo mixed according to the instructions, I use the seesaw method -- glass container, base side down, twice through. With clip attached, it comes right out of the solution and is hung to dry.

Cholentpot · Jul 30, 2019

I see a lot of people like you use the shake off, or whip off the excess water method. It just hasn't worked for me. The more water the better it seems.

The seesaw does have potential it looks like.

Bill Burk · Jul 30, 2019

I did a test and found that a few drops in 16 oz water is not enough. I now use a full mini syringe to 16 oz.

1:500 for reverse osmosis filtered water, probably 1:200 for tap water.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/a-few-drops-photoflo.158674/page-2#post-2062300

Dali · Jul 30, 2019

Photo-Flo diluted 1:1000 in the tank with tap water, inversion for 60 seconds, drain the water (and most of Photo-Flo but not all) from the tank, pour distilled water, inversion for 60 seconds, hang the film without wipe off. Never has an issue.

Photo-flo, bad advice, and working through issues.

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