To be fair he said 'I [...] suspect'.
I've posted many times on this forum on the fact that I've had some talks with Fuji on their paper business & technology and that I can derive one or two things about product R&D complexity from those talks. I also have a professional background in innovation management. Based on that as well as what I've picked up on the analog photo industry & tech in general over the years (to cut a long story short), I lean towards the interpretation of @Lachlan Young instead of the IMO overly optimistic reading of the marketing message that @dcy quoted. In particular, that message included the following bit:industry insights (do you have any connection with the industry? Can you disclose these connections for us?)
Full masking in a CN film would take a heck of a lot more R&D than what could be crammed into 'hours of work' and 'weeks of preparation'. You'd likely be looking at an effort of at least several months, or more realistically over a year, for a small but dedicated team of R&D staff. I think Harman's progress on this front is indicative of what's realistic in terms of the pace of new product development.Additional hours of work and weeks of preparation later and voilà, the orange base was born yielding even better results when scanned in the Lab!
Please feel free to share. Otherwise dcy's conjectures are exactly as good as yours.
Call the producers. 'The Orange Mask'. Out now.
@koraks I think the situation is more that Inoviscoat has the know-how to make a fully functional image-wise mask, but cannot do so on the films they are currently coating either because they lack the internal kilo lab synthesis capacity to do so, the necessary cash to get external sources to do it, and/ or the resources to dedicate to R&D on making more effective coloured couplers. They might have chosen to make a compromise that delivers adequate results with scanning, but which is significantly less costly to make, enabling some cash flow to spend on the R&D.
Harman have had to start from the opposite direction, but with the benefit of kilo scale synchem resources that Inoviscoat/ Orwo currently seem to lack (and Harman seems to be running about as fast as it's probably possible to go). I will be interested to see how much masking they have achieved, and if they're aiming to get one set of coloured couplers good, then add the other. The leaked preview images suggest that they may be heading that way. I'll also be interested to see if Kentmere 200 has a relationship with the new version of Phoenix.
The problem with this statement is that it appears to be a suspicion based on nothing else but an axiomatic assumption that this is how it must have been going. There's no technical analysis underlying it, no clear model of how film emulsion R&D works nor any industry insight. It's really just conjecture of the most informal kind. Mind you, that's perfectly fine as it is, but let's call a spade a spade. It's just a wild guess.
Well, he said 'strongly suspect'. And that implies that there's some background to this apparently 'strong' suspicion.
When I pick my Phoenix II up tomorrow afternoon, I will laugh really hard if the base is still mustard yellow and the improvements they made were only to the emulsion, with no movement towards better masking
I honestly don't expect that any self-respecting manufacturer would actually do (1), but I include it anyway because it's pretty much the only way I can see a company could include a new masking approach in a CN film using only 'hours' of R&D work and 'weeks' of lead time to a functional product. But I think it's a far-fetched hypothesis even for InovisCoat as this would really constitute nothing more than a cosmetic 'improvement',
So that's the conjecture from my end, which I think is fairly close to what @Lachlan Young proposed. I wouldn't call the above a 'strong suspicion' - I'd really call it a wild guess based on a very informal paper napkin exercise. And I think that this exercise already blows pretty big holes in a 'strong suspicion' that was put forth earlier. Which indeed I approached critically, because before doing the paper napkin approach, I had a feeling of "that doesn't sound quite right".
I'm not sure I care about the masking TBH. if Phoenix 2 had the same "color science" for lack of a better term but more dynamic range and finer grain I'd be thrilled
Perhaps I'm old fashioned as I learned photography when film was all there was, why would I want a film that is only red?At what point they decided they could spin a redscale product off of this - your guess is as good as mine. There's a good chance that even within Harman they're not exactly sure who came up with it first and when it happened exactly.
The product was delayed by about 1 year.
That's ONE possibility. They simply cannot have done a lot of dedicated R&D for this particular product because neither the time, nor the financials work out that way. That's what a paper napkin exercise shows. See also @Lachlan Young's thoughts on these, although I would wager to say that the financial bottleneck may not be related entirely to synthesis.You made the case that InovisCoat must be incorporating technology that was already started years ago and they now saw a chance to recoup some of the cost.
Perhaps I'm old fashioned as I learned photography when film was all there was, why would I want a film that is only red?
...why would I want a film that is only red?
https://www.harmanphoto.co.uk/phoenix/ it's official
"The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later."
I guess that answers questions regarding how big interest is....
I swear it was online and blue for at least a couple minutes there
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?