Phoenix II pictures

Agulliver · Aug 7, 2025

Here are some from my first roll of Phoenix II. These were scanned by my local lab, when I pick up the negatives I'll scan them again myself because I think there are still scanning issues and that I can do a better job.

Also bear in mind these were shot on a 1930s Zeiss-Ikon 6x6 folder which was "new to me" and hitherto untested since it was last used over 40 years ago.

BHuij · Aug 7, 2025

Strong blues and greens, weak reds seems to be pretty par for the course here. I think that kind of color palette can work for some photos. To my eye though those scans could all benefit from a bit of a white balance adjustment in a warmer direction, and probably adjusting away from magenta and towards green a bit as well.

Meinrad · Aug 7, 2025

BHuij said:
Strong blues and greens, weak reds seems to be pretty par for the course here. I think that kind of color palette can work for some photos. To my eye though those scans could all benefit from a bit of a white balance adjustment in a warmer direction, and probably adjusting away from magenta and towards green a bit as well.

yes, and what i find interesting the reds stay quite good, much better than mine...

dcy · Aug 7, 2025

Agulliver said:
Here are some from my first roll of Phoenix II. These were scanned by my local lab, when I pick up the negatives I'll scan them again myself because I think there are still scanning issues and that I can do a better job.

Also bear in mind these were shot on a 1930s Zeiss-Ikon 6x6 folder which was "new to me" and hitherto untested since it was last used over 40 years ago.

I think these look amazing. I'm pretty impressed with what Harman has achieved. I am sure I have a less discerning eye than others here, but for what it's worth, this is something I would be willing to shoot as a regular everyday color film.

MattKing · Aug 7, 2025

Given the suppressed reds, I wonder if it would be helpful to use some strong warming filtration and a bit more exposure when exposing it, to help reduce the blue and green response.
It wouldn't necessarily give better colour, but it might make it easier to scan or print it optically.

Agulliver · Aug 8, 2025

I'm in full agreement that there's too much in the way of magenta in those scans. I know my local lab specifically has issues with Phoenix I

When I am back from another little trip (not shooting Phoenix this time) I'll get the negatives and have a go at scanning them myself. But overall, especially as I shot this on a 1930s camera without the benefit of modern lenses and coatings, I'm quite happy with the improvements Harman have made.

BHuij · Aug 9, 2025

Okay, just got my first roll scanned, and I must say I'm impressed.

I shot this at EI 125 and developed in DIY ECN-2 chemistry. Usually I do the standard 3 minutes in developer for Vision3 films, and 5 minutes for C-41 films to try and recover some contrast lost by using CD-3 instead of CD-4. Since Phoenix I was incredibly contrasty and Phoenix II is still quite contrasty from everything I've heard, I decided to give it 4 minutes instead of the normal 5 I would give to other C-41 films. So basically... I pulled the film roughly 2/3 of a stop compared to box speed exposure and standard development.

Once dry, I scanned as raw images at 4000 DPI with my CoolScan 4000, using VueScan. No corrections, presets, or processing at all other than a bit of IR dust removal on the part of VueScan. I'll link DNGs if anyone has a better way to convert from raw scans to positive images. I'm what you might consider "barely competent" at that task.

Once I had my DNGs, I followed my normal workflow in Lightroom with Negative Lab Pro. There are a couple of steps to overwrite metadata, and then I just converted with NLP's absolute default settings for color negative film. I have done no manual color balancing, sharpening, or exposure adjustments on these positives (though some could use it).

Included are three frames I thought were interesting. 2 of them demonstrate that I got weirdly good reds. Perhaps NLP's black box did something to the scans to improve the reds automatically. The one without any red shows that the dynamic range of the film is better than I anticipated. I got pretty close to full shadow detail on the leaf, and still had texture in the much brighter highlight area on the same leaf.

The film isn't hugely sharp (compared to Delta 100 in Mytol or something), and it's a fair bit grainier than I'd expect from a more mature 200 speed film (especially pulled). But it's not half bad. I think I'm going to shoot some 6x6 of this film next. I rather like it.

Link to RAW scans in case anyone wants to try a better conversion: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1axIGgQcZCGA3SR7n7FB1X5edRH-5CSFs?usp=sharing

Agulliver · Aug 9, 2025

In 6x6 the grain really isn't an issue. I'd think that 6x4.5 would be great too. Phoenix II is definitely a big improvement in most aspects over Phoenix I. It's still not quite an everyday, every situation film such as Ultramax or even Color Plus but Harman have made another sizeable stride.

Agulliver · Aug 12, 2025

I've had a quick go at scanning my negatives. There's definitely a strong magenta cast and still a magenta "mask" type hue to the negatives themselves. I'll try to post decent pics of some negatives later. My impression is that Harman have improved the contrast issues with Phoenix significantly, and P2 has better grain than P1.

I didn't take much care with these so am aware of the dust etc. It's just a quick go to see if my scanning set up can get something "better" than my local lab.

blee1996 · Aug 30, 2025

A few from the summer with Phoenix II.

Caledonian Park Tower - Seagull4A107_Phoenix_004 by Zheng, on Flickr

Caledonian Park Tower - Seagull4A107_Phoenix_005 by Zheng, on Flickr

Cattle sculpture - Seagull4A107_Phoenix_007 by Zheng, on Flickr

mshchem · Aug 30, 2025

blee1996 said:
A few from the summer with Phoenix II.

Caledonian Park Tower - Seagull4A107_Phoenix_004 by Zheng, on Flickr

Caledonian Park Tower - Seagull4A107_Phoenix_005 by Zheng, on Flickr

Cattle sculpture - Seagull4A107_Phoenix_007 by Zheng, on Flickr

Thanks for sharing this. It still looks a bit unworldly. I doubt I will be using a lot of this, still I purchased a few rolls, I hope Harman finds an audience for these products,

blee1996 · Aug 30, 2025

I think the main issue with Phoenix II is red, or lack of it. Other prime colors (green and blue) are fairly ok. So I hope Phoenix III will get to the more complete palette.

Plus the ISO 200 is a bit optimistic, I would be happier to shoot it at ISO 100.

I shot another roll of Phoenix II in 135, and it was pretty sad looking due to under-exposure. My small P&S can only get ISO from DX code (which is 200), plus overcast day and primitive metering in the P&S caused even more under-exposure. So in the end the photos are grainy and lifeless.

NiallerM · Sep 1, 2025

blee1996 said:
I think the main issue with Phoenix II is red, or lack of it. Other prime colors (green and blue) are fairly ok. So I hope Phoenix III will get to the more complete palette.

Plus the ISO 200 is a bit optimistic, I would be happier to shoot it at ISO 100.

I shot another roll of Phoenix II in 135, and it was pretty sad looking due to under-exposure. My small P&S can only get ISO from DX code (which is 200), plus overcast day and primitive metering in the P&S caused even more under-exposure. So in the end the photos are grainy and lifeless.

I got the exact same results from a P&S (PoS(?)). If I use that camera again, I'll change the DX encoding if I use it again.

The reds are definitely an issue, but still, it's an ongoing project I'm happy to support it. They're pretty open wbout where they're going.

blee1996 · Sep 4, 2025

This is how bad it looks with P&S camera (Nikon AF600) and under-exposed.

NikonAF600_PhoenixII_003 by Zheng, on Flickr

NikonAF600_PhoenixII_030 by Zheng, on Flickr

NikonAF600_PhoenixII_023 by Zheng, on Flickr

blee1996 · Oct 3, 2025

A few more recent ones in San Francisco near sunset, the soft colors are nice, although the grain is still a bit noticeable. Shot at ISO 100.

Ferry building interior - MinoltaXD11_50f17_PhoenixII_005 by Zheng, on Flickr

Ferry - MinoltaXD11_50f17_PhoenixII_010 by Zheng, on Flickr

Clock tower in sunset - MinoltaXD11_50f17_PhoenixII_022 by Zheng, on Flickr

Sunset outside Ferry Building - MinoltaXD11_50f17_PhoenixII_023 by Zheng, on Flickr

Meinrad · Oct 4, 2025

good morning, very nice pictures Blee1996, especially the ferry building from inside i like very much. Some are a little bit to violett, how do you scan?

Spektrum · Oct 4, 2025

With each photo, he provides a link to the photo's source on Flickr. Click the link. There you'll find all the information about scanning, etc.

koraks · Oct 4, 2025

Spektrum said:
These aren't his photos.

Are you sure? I think they are, though. And I agree with @Meinrad that they have a distinct magenta cast. That sort of thing happens easily; you scan a series, start color balancing and before you know it, your color vision has unconsciously shifted in a particular direction. Then when you come back after an hour, you realize all the colors are out of whack! I think anyone who works with color can attest to this. Keeping a neutral reference at hand helps, as does taking regular breaks.

Meinrad · Oct 4, 2025

@Spectrum: ahh, interesting, yes you are right, i missed going to Flickr…
In my examples at the beginning of this thread the scans were made with all colors set to neutral and they came out quite good (with Kodak Gold i always have to adjust). Maybe this would be a starting point…

Meinrad · Oct 4, 2025

sorry, forget my last sentence, I confused it with Phoenix I, i had to set color balance because of the colored base…

Spektrum · Oct 4, 2025

koraks said:
Are you sure?

I edited my post and deleted it but you were faster

koraks · Oct 4, 2025

Spektrum said:
I edited my post and deleted it but you were faster

Hehe, no worries!

Spektrum · Oct 4, 2025

koraks said:
Then when you come back after an hour, you realize all the colors are out of whack!

The same thing happens to me every time I edit colors, both digitally and from scanned negatives.
But it usually happens with problematic photos, where the WB was set incorrectly (in the case of digital), or there was a problem with the development, or the CN is simply not quite perfect yet.
Phoenix II is much better than Phoenix I, but it's still problematic. I don't recommend it to anyone developing it at home. It will lead to frustration.
I'm patiently waiting for Phoenix III.

loccdor · Oct 4, 2025

I'm also waiting for III and don't plan on trying II. I have a bunch of 1 that I want to shoot in my 6x9 folder as I've never tried it in medium format and believe it would be much better there. But I've been developing such little C-41 lately that it would probably take a year before I saw the images.

thinkbrown · Oct 4, 2025

Well, while you guys are waiting, I'm gonna load up a roll of original Phoenix and head out to the farmers market

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