• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

pH changes with concentration of base

High Street

A
High Street

  • 0
  • 0
  • 19
Plato's Philosophy.

A
Plato's Philosophy.

  • 2
  • 2
  • 87

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
201,869
Messages
2,831,464
Members
100,993
Latest member
DIY123
Recent bookmarks
0

swmcl

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
77
Location
Toowoomba Qu
Format
Large Format
Hi,

This should be a fairly easy one for our chemists ...

I'm using a concentrate of 200g sodium carbonate per litre of distilled water as my stock solution.

When I add 0.25ml of this stock to 300ml of distilled water I get a pH of 10.75. Please see the following results:

0.25ml --> 10.75
0.5ml --> 10.87
0.75ml --> 10.94
1ml --> 10.99
1.25ml --> 11.00
1.5ml --> 11.03
1.75ml --> 11.06
2.0ml --> 11.06
3.0ml --> 11.06

My pH meter is a Chinese meter that I am fairly sure is drifting with ambient temperature. The gain is very variable. I do have buffer solutions to calibrate the meter just before I do the testing.

The distilled water started with a pH of around 7.2 and it dropped to around 5.6 pr 5.7 or so as I stirred the pH tester probe in the water. This is expected as the water is dissolving CO2 into carbonic acid.

My question is whether these results are representative to the process. Do they look right ? Is the graph that would be created atypical of this test ?

My subsidiary question would be, is there a carbonate that would produce a lower pH at a given concentration that would be commonly used in photography ? For example, say at 1ml per 100ml I'm getting a pH of 11.06 here, what carbonate would given me a pH of say 10.3 ?? I'm assuming potassium carbonate would give an even higher pH than sodium carbonate and am thinking there might be another product again to give me a lower pH.

Cheers,

Steve
 

Gerald C Koch

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8,131
Location
Southern USA
Format
Multi Format
Actually there is and it is commonly called sodium sesquicarbonate (trisodium hydrogen dicarbonate). It can be formed by adding equal molar quantities of sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate. A 1% solution has a pH = 9.9. You can also purchase it from www.chemistrystore.com/
 
OP
OP

swmcl

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
77
Location
Toowoomba Qu
Format
Large Format
I think I should've said 'is there an alkali ...' instead of 'is there a carbonate ...'
 
OP
OP

swmcl

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
77
Location
Toowoomba Qu
Format
Large Format
I think the sodium sesquicarbonate would give me a similar result in my tests as the 99% TEA that I have as it is a similar pH ?

Hey I found this site ... http://www.aqion.de/site/191

In it I see a product called magnesium hydroxide which seems to like sitting at a pH of 10.4 for various concentrations ...

I wonder ...

You must be giggling at all this Gerald.
 

Gerald C Koch

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8,131
Location
Southern USA
Format
Multi Format
I think the sodium sesquicarbonate would give me a similar result in my tests as the 99% TEA that I have as it is a similar pH ?

Hey I found this site ... http://www.aqion.de/site/191

In it I see a product called magnesium hydroxide which seems to like sitting at a pH of 10.4 for various concentrations ...

I wonder ...

You must be giggling at all this Gerald.

You will note that the columns are in millemoles which is a low concentration. Magnesium hydroxide is milk of magnesia which is insoluble in water except in minute amounts. It would not be suitable for developers. It gives the same pH because only a very small amount dissolves regardless of how much is added to water.

In the same way calcium hydroxide is a strong base but its limited solubility makes it safe.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rudeofus

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
5,119
Location
EU
Format
Medium Format
One thing I find curious in the tables of this aquion site is, that they claim you can substitute NaOH and KOH on a mol per mol basis: the pH of various equimolar dilutions of KOH and NaOH matches to the final digit. Strangely, this does not really lineup with the different pKb of NaOH and KOH ...
 

sfaber17

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
245
Location
Illinois
Format
35mm
One thing I find curious in the tables of this aquion site is, that they claim you can substitute NaOH and KOH on a mol per mol basis: the pH of various equimolar dilutions of KOH and NaOH matches to the final digit. Strangely, this does not really lineup with the different pKb of NaOH and KOH ...
They have such a low pKb that they are fully ionized for all practical purposes so you would expect that behavior like you would with strong acids like HCl or HNO3. The relation between pKa and pH shows up more when you have a buffer solution situation with equal concentrations of the acid and base ion forms.
 

Xmas

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
6,398
Location
UK
Format
35mm RF
Use a boric acid borax buffer for film as many films cannot tolerate carbonate alkalis.

If you have to ask pH questions suggest you need to go to college instead.
 

mrred

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
1,251
Location
Montreal, Ca
Format
Multi Format
+1. One of the reasons this site exists.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom