Perspective

[cliveh]

Perspective is one of the most important aspects of photography and it is why I only use a 50mm lens. However, I see many utube videos where photographers talk about controlling perspective with different focal length lenses.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Perspective is one of the most important aspects of photography and it is why I only use a 50mm lens. However, I see many utube videos where photographers talk about controlling perspective with different focal length lenses.

It is possible to use focal length as the functional driver to controlling perspective. I have done that in the past and will likely do that in the future. A longer length lens can make subjects appear to stack up while a wider angle lens makes it appear as though the observer has stepped back.

 

[wiltw]

1. Perspective is only controlled by camera position...20mm FL taking a photo 20' from the lens to subject has IDENTICAL perspective with a 50mm FL taking the photo...the relationship of subject to items in the background does not change.
2. FL only controls framing.

The above is very easily proven.

 

[Chuck_P]

I've always viewed perspective as the result of the camera to subject distance regardless of the focal length used. I guess there's different ways of looking at it.

 

[MattKing]

Perspective is one of the most important aspects of photography and it is why I only use a 50mm lens. However, I see many utube videos where photographers talk about controlling perspective with different focal length lenses.

This isn't surprising really. People's "perspective" on perspective is influenced by how they learn photography, and many modern photographers learned with zoom lenses.
When you can easily and quickly switch between multiple focal lengths, there is a much greater likelihood you will link in your mind focal lengths rather than subject to camera distances with particular perspective effects.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Perspective to me is making a three dimensional image using a two dimensional machine, which in this case, is a camera. Choice of focal length to suit the subject is generally how I do this, as is the positioning of the subject to suit the focal length.

This is a 250mm lens on a 4x5" format, which is a slightly longer focal length than normally used as a standard focal length.

 

[ic-racer]

Moving the lens closer or farther from the subject is the only way to control perspective.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Perspective is one of the most important aspects of photography and it is why I only use a 50mm lens. However, I see many utube videos where photographers talk about controlling perspective with different focal length lenses.

I also often use a 50mm lens, because i dislike wide-angle lenses. These do distort proportions. Objects being straight, like a lamp post for example will appear bent - more or less.
In fact, even a 50mm lens on 35mm film still will distort proportions a little, therefore the longer the focal length the less bending of the subject will occur.
There was an interesting chapter in a book from Feininger, where he does show this effect of focal length. The interesting point is that some subjects are too large for the human eye to be seen undistorted. He took a picture of a bridge, having pillars about as high as the golden gate bridge, with a long focal lens - and the camera therefore being far away from the bridge. On this picture the entire pillar was reproduced undistorted and because of that you could see how high the pillar actually is - which you cannot see with your own eye standing rather next to the bridge.

Perspective, as i learned in school, should be a different thing. Perspective is where the camera is placed, like "worm`s eye view" or "bird`s eye view". Focal length does have an influence of distortion of proportions.

Both effects often are combined. They use a wide-angle lens and do a low-angle shot, to make the person photographed appear even bigger etc. .

 

[koraks]

However, I see many utube videos where photographers talk about controlling perspective with different focal length

Yeah, so your qualm is with a technically incorrect use of the term 'perspective'. I think this has been discussed online since the birth of the internet.
When people colloquially mention 'perspective' as a reason to opt for a wide-angle or a long focal length lens, I know what they mean even though the terminology is not technically correct. So we can still communicate effectively, and these people can usually still make the choices that gets them the image they want. So there's not really a problem. It makes me doubtful of the added value of yet again discussing the misuse of a technical term. It seems to be an instance of "ackchyually" more so than a relevant discussion.

 

[gary mulder]

controlling perspective

 

[wiltw]

Moving the lens closer or farther from the subject is the only way to control perspective.

+1
Illustration of the principle...all shots taken from ONE camera position with three different FL, then the 'framing' -- regardless of FL of lens -- has been made identical by postprocessing. ONE 'perpective' (relationship of the subject to everything around/behind it) is seen from all FL, regardless of original FL. (The differences between shots can be observed in the blurriness of things in the background -- note the bridge and the sailboat in the background --, but their relative size vs. the sunlit tree closest to the parking area is 'the same') The FL only altered the 'framing', but the framing was later made identical by cropping shot during postprocessing.

...the original shots with original framing, FL only altered the framing!

This series originally posted on POTN, many years ago.

 

[wiltw]

+1
Illustration of the principle...all shots taken from ONE camera position with three different FL, then the 'framing' -- regardless of FL of lens -- has been made identical by postprocessing. ONE 'perpective' (relationship of the subject to everything around/behind it) is seen from all FL, regardless of original FL. (The differences between shots can be observed in the blurriness of things in the background -- note the bridge and the sailboat in the background --, but their relative size vs. the sunlit tree closest to the parking area is 'the same') The FL only altered the 'framing', but the framing was later made identical by cropping shot during postprocessing.

FL itself does not change 'perspective'; FL choice permits the main subject size to be 'the same' in the frame ...yet allowing different camera positions -- which alters the relationship of things around/behind the subject to be different.
FL facilitates a change in 'perspective'; but only camera position actually alters 'perspective.

 

[Dali]

Moving the lens closer or farther from the subject is the only way to control perspective.

Once you understand this simple statement, there is no much to say about perspective.

 

[cliveh]

It is possible to use focal length as the functional driver to controlling perspective. I have done that in the past and will likely do that in the future. A longer length lens can make subjects appear to stack up while a wider angle lens makes it appear as though the observer has stepped back.

Can you explain how you do that? Have others have stated, the only way to change perspective is by changing camera to subject distance.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

It is possible to use focal length as the functional driver to controlling perspective. I have done that in the past and will likely do that in the future. A longer length lens can make subjects appear to stack up while a wider angle lens makes it appear as though the observer has stepped back.

It is possible to use focal length as the functional driver to controlling perspective. I have done that in the past and will likely do that in the future. A longer length lens can make subjects appear to stack up while a wider angle lens makes it appear as though the observer has stepped back.

As we all now,perspective can only be altered by camera position not focal length;focal length changes the angle of view, not perspective.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Can you explain how you do that? Have others have stated, the only way to change perspective is by changing camera to subject distance.

As we all now,perspective can only be altered by camera position not focal length;focal length changes the angle of view, not perspective.

I will go stand in the corner. I "feel" as though changing the focal length I am changing where I am standing relative to a normal length.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

This reminds me of an exercise/project that I gave my photo students. All semester long, I hammered them with this, as well as composition. I also taught it in filmmaking. Perspective is something that was hammered in me at art school... long before I got into photography.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I will go stand in the corner. I "feel" as though changing the focal length I am changing where I am standing relative to a normal length.

Aha, maybe that is the issue!. Changing the focal length may cause us to change where we are standing undeliberately to take advantage of the new compositional opportunity. For example, photographing the headlamp of an automobile with a shorter focal length. Through the viewfinder we see how moving closer gets us a more dramatic effect. Initially, we may give credit to the shorter focal length when it was actually the opportunity to move closer. So, in a way, the focal length gave us a different perspective but only by allowing us to move closer, which is the only way to get a different perspective.

 

[Taylor K Nankervis]

Perspective is one of the most important aspects of photography and it is why I only use a 50mm lens. However, I see many utube videos where photographers talk about controlling perspective with different focal length lenses.

And—?
Consider that an ultra- or wide-angle lens will have a different perspective to a normal lens, and then again, a telephoto will take that into another direction — wide angles open up the view; telephotos compress it.

But perspective is a big toolbox.

A large format camera will take all the rigid dictum and dogma of perspective and turn it literally on its ear.
Lens-to-film, vertical/horizontal relationship, tilt-swing (the primary movements that affect perspective and correction of convergence/divergence. And that's all before you even consider the lens up front!

A 40mm lens has been said to closer approximate the perspective of the human eye. And then there are the pundits promoting "35 is the normal"! Whatever floats your boat. The 40mm end of my Canon 17-40mm f4 L lens is the most common I use when shooting 35mm.

 

[koraks]

Consider that an ultra- or wide-angle lens will have a different perspective to a normal lens, and then again, a telephoto will take that into another direction — wide angles open up the view; telephotos compress it.

Have you read the preceding discussion? You might understand then why people are so adamant (and technically correct) in asserting that focal length does not influence perspective. I'm aware, as pretty much anyone is, that colloquially, we often still act as if it's the case. To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever got hurt because of it.

A large format camera will take all the rigid dictum and dogma of perspective and turn it literally on its ear.

Not really. It's the same on any format. I never noticed a difference moving between 35mm and 8x10", in any case. Yes, cameras for the latter format offer movements, generally. To an extent, we can mimic a different perspective that way, but if you think about it, it ends up being exactly the same thing as with the crop factor discussion - you just use a specific bit of the image circle, that's all.

 

[Don_ih]

I think there's a bit of confusion about "perspective". Most people will take that word to mean the point-of-view one has upon a scene. That won't change with a change of lens. If you don't change your position, a longer lens will pretty much just crop the view and not change the apparent relation of things to each other.

Andreas Feininger used a very long lens from a great distance to get this shot of the Hudson River:

specifically to preserve what he thought was the correct relation between the size of the ships and the buildings looming in the background. If he wanted to get a photo of those ships with a shorter lens, from a closer distance, he would have lost that looming background and established an apparent greater distance between the foreground and background. The point here is that this isn't really a change in perspective as much as it's a compression of the scene.

In the examples offered above by @wiltw, the scene looks more or less identical in terms of compression when the wide angle image is cropped to match the photo using the longer lens. That amount of compression would not match if the camera was moved such that the main subject (that central tree) took up the same amount of space in the resulting image. The longer lens would show more compression of the background.

 

[wiltw]

I will go stand in the corner. I "feel" as though changing the focal length I am changing where I am standing relative to a normal length.

Examine the 3 initial photos in Post 11 very carefully, and it proves that altering FL does nothing to 'perspective'...it alters 'framing' and it alters 'DOF'.

If move closer to subject (than when using 'normal' lens) in order to keep the primary subject the same size (e.g. 50% of the frame height) that change of position alters the relationship of the main subject to things in the background...the subject gets relatively large while the objects in the background stay relatively small....compared to using a longer FL and backing away, makes the rear hand not so small compared to the front hand.

In this series, I use 3 different FL (shortest FL at left, longest FL at right shot) short

...my left hand gets progressivelhy 'larger' as the shooting distance is increased to keep my right hand the 'same size' in all 3 shots. NOte the lamp visible in shots 2 & 3...its size gets notably 'bigger' as the FL and shooting distance increase, too, because its relative distance (lens-to-lamp vs. lens-to-right hand) is 'closer' to the lens in a relative sense.

You can see this change of apparent relative size even with the naked eye, with no specific lens FL being used to create this effect. And the format size has no influence on the relative size change either...110 format vs. 8x10 format would image the same effect at identical distances.

 

[MattKing]

Are the three illustrations in the previous post intended to depict how us moderators appear when a Photrio thread "blows up"?

 

[cliveh]

One of the best examples of changing perspective is in the film “JAWS” where the guy on the beach realises a shark has been seen in the same area his son is swimming and Steven Spielberg uses a focus pulling effect while at the same time moving the camera on a track to change perspective and keep the mans face the same size, thus creating a strong visual impression. I believe Andrei Tarkovsky also used this technique in one of his films.

 

[Milpool]

Hitchcock used a “dolly zoom” effect in Vertigo. I don’t know if that was a first or who pioneered it.