Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024

bfilm · Mar 1, 2024

mshchem said:
Serious minded people are not remotely interested in a "new k1000" not when you can buy amazing cameras for a couple hundred bucks.

I think plenty of people would be interested in being able to get a new, nice camera. This was something Pentax talked about initially with the project--the idea of being able to get a newly-made camera with warranty and service available.

And depending upon what "amazing cameras" you are considering, even standard secondhand models can easily cost several hundred or even into the thousands of dollars, especially for one in excellent condition.

kitspics · Mar 1, 2024

bfilm said:
Surely people want a camera that they use like a camera.

mshchem is right, the market segment this is for is young enough they've never owned a dedicated camera before an instax, and they only got that because they were sick of instagram. Young people don't even know the meaning of the word warranty, no product they've ever owned except maybe their car has come with one.

If you're a 15-30 year old you came of age either during or immediately after the "death" of film, so you've never been exposed to this kind of photography, the (phone) camera has done it all for you. So concepts like aperture, shutter speed, film speed and dynamic range are all quickly overwhelming and make the cameras preferred by more "hardcore" film hobbyists unapproachable.

I'd also say everyone should prepare themselves for sticker shock, my bet is this thing is in the ballpark of $500 or so, and if you're asking for a new k1000 you better be prepared to shell out 5x that. Manufacturing things costs a lot of money now

Craig · Mar 1, 2024

mshchem said:
Auto exposure, maybe a little accessory flash. Beautiful to look at, a wind-on lever and a little crank to rewind

Ah, a Rollei 35 with auto exposure!

kitspics · Mar 1, 2024

Craig said:
Ah, a Rollei 35 with auto exposure!

What a coincidence, there's one of those coming out this year, too. https://www.analogforevermagazine.com/features-interviews/mint-camera-the-rollei-35-af

Maybe there's a market segment that doesn't currently have a camera that these two could fulfill

bfilm · Mar 1, 2024

kitspics said:
mshchem is right, the market segment this is for is young enough they've never owned a dedicated camera before an instax, and they only got that because they were sick of instagram. Young people don't even know the meaning of the word warranty, no product they've ever owned except maybe their car has come with one.

If you're a 15-30 year old you came of age either during or immediately after the "death" of film, so you've never been exposed to this kind of photography, the (phone) camera has done it all for you. So concepts like aperture, shutter speed, film speed and dynamic range are all quickly overwhelming and make the cameras preferred by more "hardcore" film hobbyists unapproachable.

I'd also say everyone should prepare themselves for sticker shock, my bet is this thing is in the ballpark of $500 or so, and if you're asking for a new k1000 you better be prepared to shell out 5x that. Manufacturing things costs a lot of money now

I don't know. If this is the case, then why bother with film. It is also really disappointing if it is the case.

I have been expecting the new Pentax film camera to be $700-$900. But I certainly wouldn't pay that for a half-frame camera.

Personally, I was pretty excited for the Pentax film project, but this is not a promising start. Perhaps it is possible they will still develop more interesting models for others with more serious interest in film. I saw a good amount of interest from others in the Pentax film project, too, with people saying how they would really like a new Pentax LX or new Pentax 645 or new Pentax 67. I certainly never heard anyone say they want a half-frame camera marketed to them for use like a cellphone.

Disconnekt · Mar 1, 2024

mshchem said:
Pentax needs to fit in to a market that's composed of kids. Serious minded people are not remotely interested in a "new k1000" not when you can buy amazing cameras for a couple hundred bucks.

24 exposure rolls = 48 half frame. A little mirror for framing selfies. Auto exposure, maybe a little accessory flash. Beautiful to look at, a wind-on lever and a little crank to rewind

Yeah, in their video they said they made it to be aimed towards the younger generation/crowd since they're on various social media sites (tiktok, youtube, twitter, ig, facebook, tons of other sites) the most & share alot of photos/stuff online, so that could be some extra "free marketing" for them, which hopefully will help them sell more to fund their other projects.

mshchem · Mar 1, 2024

A couple weeks back I bought (another) Nikon F5, mint condition from MAP camera, FedEx free shipping, from Japan to USA with 6% Iowa sales tax, under $340.00 USD. No reason to buy a new camera. I bought a new Leica M6, no good reason, I think they managed to sell a few thousand, but there's no one waiting for one today.
The Mint Rollei project is doomed due to cost/quality paradigm.
Reality is a brick wall.

runswithsizzers · Mar 1, 2024

I am a long-time Pentax user -- having owned 3 or 4 Spotmatics in the 1970s & 80s, ME Super and MX in the 1990s, two digital Pentaxes bought in 2010 and 2016, and still regularly using a KX and an MX today. So it pains me to say this, but the more I learn about their new film camera, the less interested I am in owning one. So far, it sounds like a camera designed by a committee.

In 2017, I finally gave up all hope that Pentax would ever create a digital camera in the spirit of the MX or LX, and I switched to Fuji. But I do wish Pentax success in their new venture.

bfilm · Mar 1, 2024

mshchem said:
The Mint Rollei project is doomed due to cost/quality paradigm.

For me, the Mint camera was of no interest as soon as they announced that it will have lidar. I do not want lasers in a camera.

It is also sad to see the Rollei name reduced to a marketing gimmick. The classic Rolleiflex TLR cameras are some of the nicest cameras ever made--considered by some, with good reason, to be the finest mechanically of any camera ever.

mshchem · Mar 2, 2024

runswithsizzers said:
I am a long-time Pentax user -- having owned 3 or 4 Spotmatics in the 1970s & 80s, ME Super and MX in the 1990s, two digital Pentaxes bought in 2010 and 2016, and still regularly using a KX and an MX today. So it pains me to say this, but the more I learn about their new film camera, the less interested I am in owning one. So far, it sounds like a camera designed by a committee.

In 2017, I finally gave up all hope that Pentax would ever create a digital camera in the spirit of the MX or LX, and I switched to Fuji. But I do wish Pentax success in their new venture.

My first SLRs were Pentax. What beautiful cameras. A couple years ago I found a SP500, like my first real camera,

baachitraka · Mar 2, 2024

It's nice to have a half-frame, electronic shutter and manual wind but not sure about zone-focus. Over time it many will use to it unless it's not focusing anything close.

But my gut feeling says it will be a successful product.

miha · Mar 2, 2024

mshchem said:
Pentax needs to fit in to a market that's composed of kids. Serious minded people are not remotely interested in a "new k1000" not when you can buy amazing cameras for a couple hundred bucks.

24 exposure rolls = 48 half frame. A little mirror for framing selfies. Auto exposure, maybe a little accessory flash. Beautiful to look at, a wind-on lever and a little crank to rewind

That's exactly how I see it.

albireo · Mar 2, 2024

bfilm said:
As I mentioned above, I also think half-frame is a mistake. Some have mentioned that half-frame is fun, but this is not a camera that is being offered as a quirky option among dozens of other choices. Considering that the choices today are a $5,700 Leica rangefinder camera or a $60 plastic camera, what we really need is a medium-grade classic camera.

Who is 'we'?

ant! · Mar 2, 2024

baachitraka said:
It's nice to have a half-frame, electronic shutter and manual wind but not sure about zone-focus. Over time it many will use to it unless it's not focusing anything close.

I have a Canon Demi EE17 and love it. Zone-focus with hair frame isn't that difficult, and my Demi has a distance indication in the viewfinder (plus the aperture). compact size, but also not much smaller then a himatic 7s II and other compact full frame rangefinders.

If the new Pentax can reach the features of the Demi: great. Great lens, full information viewfinder, manual or shutter speed priority auto, winding crank (instead of the wheel on some Olympus pen). But still, I am not the market for the Pentax and have enough old cameras...

Electronic controlled shutter over the mechanic I would see as an advantage.

And yes, in this have frame I use only 24exp rolls, once my stack is over I'll feed it from bulk rolls with less exposures, otherwise it's overkill.

mshchem · Mar 2, 2024

Another thing to consider, most of the target market for a camera like this will choose develop and scan. Print quality won't be a big thing.

grain elevator · Mar 2, 2024

mshchem said:
Another thing to consider, most of the target market for a camera like this will choose develop and scan. Print quality won't be a big thing.

I don't follow you here, scan quality and print quality depend largely on the same things, but getting a good scan from a smaller negative is even harder than a print with the many scanners that aren't all that high in resolution.
The target market might be not all that interested in quality as in fidelity as they might want their pictures from this to look bad - to scream "film". Otoh there's already Lomo who cater to that segment. We'll see.

pbromaghin · Mar 2, 2024

“We”, meaning mature, hard core, baby-boomer film photographers as populate APUG, are not the target market for Pentax. “We” are the past. “We” are irrelevant to them.

I spent this fall sharing a darkroom with early college age beginners at film. They don’t think like me at all. They find manual camera settings and landscape orientation exotic and a bit befuddling. They were amazed that I would go to the expense and effort to shoot a mamiya TLR. SFX in an early-50’s guess-focus 6x9 folder with an R72 filter was from a different planet.

This camera looks to be right in their wheel house. The coolness of shooting film, the familiarity of portrait orientation at half the cost of other film cameras? Perfect.

Personally, I would love a new K1000. But $400? $500? $600? I paid $75 for my beautiful SRT-201.

Pioneer · Mar 2, 2024

This won't help me at all. I was looking for a modern 35mm camera. I have tried 110 & half frame. Doesn't work. 35mm works but is close to the limit for the enlargements I generally work with. Most of what I shoot that is headed for the web is done digitally. Not really worth investing the time and spending the money on film for the web.

Ah well, it saves me money. I do wish them luck though. Marketing to kids can often be a bit chancy. I hope they pull it off.

cmacd123 · Mar 2, 2024

1) for fun, I looked at what used Ricoh Auto Haf cameras and the old pentax model metioned in the video. (under a couple of the names it was sold by in various markets) I am glad I bought so many used cameras when I did! both of those seem to go for the 200 to 400 dollar range. I may have to did out my Auto Half and start keeping it in a glass case.

2) re Zone focus. I used to carry my Auto Half in my briefcase and often used it to take pictures in Offices. with a 400 ASA C-41 film, the normal florescent lights in an office were adequate to take well exposed pictures. the Auto Half has a FIXED Focus 24 or 25mm f 2.8 lens and a battery-less auto exposure Light meter. the Zone focus feaure would be a Luxury upgrade.

pbromaghin · Mar 2, 2024

I now remember the cheap cameras my mom had in the 70s focused with symbols of a little mountain, group of people, or a single person.

Agulliver · Mar 3, 2024

pbromaghin said:
“We”, meaning mature, hard core, baby-boomer film photographers as populate APUG, are not the target market for Pentax. “We” are the past. “We” are irrelevant to them.

I spent this fall sharing a darkroom with early college age beginners at film. They don’t think like me at all. They find manual camera settings and landscape orientation exotic and a bit befuddling. They were amazed that I would go to the expense and effort to shoot a mamiya TLR. SFX in an early-50’s guess-focus 6x9 folder with an R72 filter was from a different planet.

This camera looks to be right in their wheel house. The coolness of shooting film, the familiarity of portrait orientation at half the cost of other film cameras? Perfect.

Personally, I would love a new K1000. But $400? $500? $600? I paid $75 for my beautiful SRT-201.

Yep. Once more for those at the back. This. Isn't. Aimed. At. Us.

The target audience might, however, make their way here when the cameras are out in the wild. And I sincerely hope we make them welcome. Their experience of photography is entirely different to ours. But they also represent the future. And if we want film to continue to be available, and want to see cameras in the future that *do* suit our needs....we'd better not poo on these youngsters for doing things "wrong".

It's going to cost several hundred dollarpounds. Even a relatively simple camera is a complex mechanical beast and it's not supported by sales of millions, but more like tens of thousands. It's going to cost hundreds. That's a given. $£500 won't be far off the mark, for sure.

People on other platforms complaining that it's not a new 67 are just in cloud cuckoo land. But also remember, this is the first step on a journey which Pentax do hope *will* lead to a new 35mm manual SLR. And maybe they will take some of the kids on that journey. Start with a relatively economical half frame 35mm camera with some basic manual features such as zone focusing. Then work on something a bit more sophisticated if that is a success.

bfilm · Mar 3, 2024

Agulliver said:
Yep. Once more for those at the back. This. Isn't. Aimed. At. Us.

The target audience might, however, make their way here when the cameras are out in the wild. And I sincerely hope we make them welcome. Their experience of photography is entirely different to ours. But they also represent the future. And if we want film to continue to be available, and want to see cameras in the future that *do* suit our needs....we'd better not poo on these youngsters for doing things "wrong".

It's going to cost several hundred dollarpounds. Even a relatively simple camera is a complex mechanical beast and it's not supported by sales of millions, but more like tens of thousands. It's going to cost hundreds. That's a given. $£500 won't be far off the mark, for sure.

People on other platforms complaining that it's not a new 67 are just in cloud cuckoo land. But also remember, this is the first step on a journey which Pentax do hope *will* lead to a new 35mm manual SLR. And maybe they will take some of the kids on that journey. Start with a relatively economical half frame 35mm camera with some basic manual features such as zone focusing. Then work on something a bit more sophisticated if that is a success.

But I still think half-frame is the wrong way to go about this. I think Pentax is really approaching this camera in the wrong way even for young customers.

Of course, I think people should use film just because it is the right way to do photography. Yes, the right way, and really the only way--see Erwin Puts writing on this subject. And people should just put in the effort to learn to use it, as has always been done and is required of almost anything worthwhile.

But even the youth that don't hold that view are attracted to film because it is different from digital and their common devices. I think making a camera that is supposed to be used similarly to and marketed for use like a digital device does not fully satisfy the desire for authenticity that some of them are seeking. They will just look instead for one of the secondhand compact film cameras that have become so popular.

I can understand Pentax starting with a compact camera instead of an SLR, and I think they have made some good decisions with it. But the half-frame and marketing it like using a cellphone, I think are real mistakes--not only for attracting the youth, but also for attracting more established photographers, who I think are a bigger potential customer base than they seem to think.

Agulliver · Mar 5, 2024

So...survey of just one but I had a chat with a "younger film photographer" yesterday and she did say that a half frame camera is a "great idea".

We should always remember that the camera can be rotated to take photos in landscape mode. Given the healthy sales of the Kodak branded half frame camera last year, something more sophisticated and longer lasting but which is also half frame seems to be a decent idea.

Still unsure if I shall go halfsies on one with a partner. We have discussed it. Depends on the price in the end. Neither of us currently owns a 35mm half frame camera despite having something like 70 cameras between us.

bfilm · Mar 5, 2024

Agulliver said:
So...survey of just one but I had a chat with a "younger film photographer" yesterday and she did say that a half frame camera is a "great idea".

We should always remember that the camera can be rotated to take photos in landscape mode. Given the healthy sales of the Kodak branded half frame camera last year, something more sophisticated and longer lasting but which is also half frame seems to be a decent idea.

Still unsure if I shall go halfsies on one with a partner. We have discussed it. Depends on the price in the end. Neither of us currently owns a 35mm half frame camera despite having something like 70 cameras between us.

It could be that some people are genuine fans of the half-frame, but I feel like it is more likely that they just don't have a strong opinion either way and are happy to see anything.

Similarly, I feel like the Kodak half-frame is mostly popular because it is among the only options available new. Maybe Pentax saw the Kodak and said, "oh, look". But I think they would be even more successful with a traditional format 35mm camera.

Considering that Pentax has such a wide open territory all to themselves in making a real film camera, the half-frame seems a very odd choice to me as the first camera to introduce (as the only real new option) south of the venerable Leica rangefinder. I feel like most people would be much happier to see a traditional format 35mm camera.

But perhaps Pentax will fairly quickly follow this half-frame with a traditional format camera. We did have the comments from someone at Ricoh or Pentax Europe, that were quickly quieted by Ricoh or Pentax Japan, that there would be two new cameras this year, one of them being higher-grade. There is some conjecture that the original statement wasn't so much incorrect as that they were not yet authorized to say it. We will see.

Cholentpot · Mar 5, 2024

I think this is a great idea. They're aiming at a new gen who will spend the money on a new camera and get 72 shots out of a roll instead of a measly 24 or 36. Zone focus works fine for half frame and it's going to be natively oriented for the way they take photos.

I'm something of a half-frame fan in general and with modern films and modern scanning I dare anyone to spot the difference between a half-frame shot and full frame. You'd just assume that the film was a faster or grainier stock of film.

Watching the Pentax Rep I see someone who has passion and heart for the project. That goes a long way. I can't wait to see what the camera looks like when they roll it out. Am I going to buy one? Probably not, it's going to be priced out of my range. But I'll be excited to see what it can do. I also think that other camera companies will sit up and take notice. These things are going to sell out faster than the Fuji X100 line.

Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024

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