Pentax 645 70 mm film insert // looking for manual

[Hassasin]

So far I've had zero luck. Does anyone have a copy/link to share of the manual for P645 70 mm film insert ?

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

I unfortunately have never seen one.

With that said, are you looking for anything specific? It took me a few minutes of playing with it, but it has a nice diagram of the film routing and once you have the film routed it pretty much works like a standard insert-just plug it into the camera, hit the shutter button, and it will auto-advance and be ready to go.

 

[Disconnekt]

Heres a pdf for it from a site called manualslib, some of the scans of it isn't "great", but should help somewhat:

PENTAX 70MM FILM HOLDER 645 OPERATING MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Pentax 70mm Film Holder 645 operating manual online. 70mm Film Holder 645 camera accessories pdf manual download. Also for: Eyepiece 645 for film holder.

www.manualslib.com

 

[Hassasin]

Heres a pdf for it from a site called manualslib, some of the scans of it isn't "great", but should help somewhat:

PENTAX 70MM FILM HOLDER 645 OPERATING MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Pentax 70mm Film Holder 645 operating manual online. 70mm Film Holder 645 camera accessories pdf manual download. Also for: Eyepiece 645 for film holder.

www.manualslib.com

Much appreciated, thanks.

 

[Hassasin]

I unfortunately have never seen one.

With that said, are you looking for anything specific? It took me a few minutes of playing with it, but it has a nice diagram of the film routing and once you have the film routed it pretty much works like a standard insert-just plug it into the camera, hit the shutter button, and it will auto-advance and be ready to go.

I'm actually looking for one and wanted to see through its details before jumping in. Stil need to see what film options are out there, especially in B&W.

 

[Disconnekt]

Da! 🫡
If anything, you can browse around the site pentaxforums.com, you may get some answers there for any questions you have about it (free to sign up/post)

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

I'm actually looking for one and wanted to see through its details before jumping in. Stil need to see what film options are out there, especially in B&W.

Short answer is that the back is not easily modded(at least that I'm aware of), so you are limited to Type II perf film. 70mm Type II is probably the most common perf style out there-it's 8 perfs/inch, the same as 35mm film, and the distance from the edge is the same as 35mm-basically it's like taking 35mm film and doubling the width of it.

Unfortunately, what 70mm is out there being made now is mostly non-perf, so it can't be used in this back. Ilford usually makes some HP5 70mm in the annual ULF run, but you're kind of at the mercy of what everyone else orders as to whether you get perf or non-perf. When they do make it perforated, as best as I'm aware it's always Type II.

The best source of film that will work is older surplus aerial film stock. Right now the easiest to find is probably Kodak 2402 Plus-X out of India.

With some minor modification and "max offset" spools from Mercury Works, you can shoot 65mm in it. This is probably the best way to get color, especially since from what I've seen the freshest Kodak 70mm color was all non-perf. Shooting 65mm loses 1-2mm off one edge of the frame, and puts a few more millimeters into the the sprocket holes, but it does work and actually work quite nicely as long as you compose for this.

It is oddly satisfying to see this on your frame counter-BTW this is 15ft of Plus-X. I don't normally load that length, as I have to cut it to develop it(I can only currently do 13ft at a time). 5ft gives you around 30-33 exposures, and is a nice length for developing ease(you can put a Patterson reel together such that it will take 70mm, and it can handle 5ft of film doing this).

 

[Hassasin]

Short answer is that the back is not easily modded(at least that I'm aware of), so you are limited to Type II perf film. 70mm Type II is probably the most common perf style out there-it's 8 perfs/inch, the same as 35mm film, and the distance from the edge is the same as 35mm-basically it's like taking 35mm film and doubling the width of it.

Unfortunately, what 70mm is out there being made now is mostly non-perf, so it can't be used in this back. Ilford usually makes some HP5 70mm in the annual ULF run, but you're kind of at the mercy of what everyone else orders as to whether you get perf or non-perf. When they do make it perforated, as best as I'm aware it's always Type II.

The best source of film that will work is older surplus aerial film stock. Right now the easiest to find is probably Kodak 2402 Plus-X out of India.

With some minor modification and "max offset" spools from Mercury Works, you can shoot 65mm in it. This is probably the best way to get color, especially since from what I've seen the freshest Kodak 70mm color was all non-perf. Shooting 65mm loses 1-2mm off one edge of the frame, and puts a few more millimeters into the the sprocket holes, but it does work and actually work quite nicely as long as you compose for this.

It is oddly satisfying to see this on your frame counter-BTW this is 15ft of Plus-X. I don't normally load that length, as I have to cut it to develop it(I can only currently do 13ft at a time). 5ft gives you around 30-33 exposures, and is a nice length for developing ease(you can put a Patterson reel together such that it will take 70mm, and it can handle 5ft of film doing this).

View attachment 391545

Great insight thanks. Probably nothing I'll do too often due to lack off film choice, but film insert alone is giving me some goose bumps.

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

Great insight thanks. Probably nothing I'll too often due to lack off film choice, but film insert alone is giving me some goose bumps.

It's a fun way to shoot, but I will also caution you that if you want to get into 70mm, you're getting into a whole "ecosystem" that can be both exciting and frustrating.

As someone who's been shooting 120 for 20+ years now, I was pretty comfortable with it. 70mm is just different enough that it will likely disrupt your workflow. All the developing tanks and reels for 120/220 I've spent years stockpiling no longer work. There's only one configuration of Printfile page that will hold it. Negative carriers for both your scanner and enlarger that hold 120 film don't hold 70mm.

There are ways around all of this, and aside from the frame capacity there are some definite advantages. One of the things I love is how easy it is to do mid-roll "cuts." Since the film feeds from light-tight cannister to a second light tight cannister, only a small amount of film is actually out at a time(maybe 6"-it depends on the back, and the Pentax back has a fairly long path). That means that if you want to develop what you've shot, you shoot a couple throw-aways to get the film you do want into take-up can, then just open the back and cut it. You can then put another empty can in, reload the camera, and keep shooting.

With that said, getting the back itself is just scratching the surface. Kodak use to sell factory loaded film, but even when they still offered it(up to ~2000 as best as I can tell) it was always a low volume product. Almost all you find is bulk rolled, usually 50 or 100ft. Watson made a daylight loader, but I use a more modern and much more versatile dark loader from Mercury Works. You need at least two film cannisters, preferably more-you'll find them branded Kodak, Linhof, Hasselblad, Graflex, and maybe a few others but as best as I can tell they're all the same(aside from Linhof using a different spool design) and were probably all made by Kodak. These sell for $20-40 each.

You can develop short lengths of film in 116 reels(which are not common) or as I mentioned can re-arrange Patterson reels to work. Full 15' 70mm stainless reels were made by Nikor, Kinderman, Hewes, and maybe a few others-there are usually one or two on Ebay at any given time but they run $100-200. Any tank to fit them is uncommon, though(a Nikor non-daylight tank and reel sold for like $250 a few weeks ago). I think Kinderman made a daylight tank, but you have to REALLY watch your developing time because it takes ~2L of solution and is really slow to fill and pour. The most accessible option is a plastic reel made for X-ray film, but it only holds 13ft.

If you want to shoot 70mm, Mercury Works is your friend. Not only can you get film from them, but they also have a bunch of custom things like a daylight tank for the X-rail reel mentioned above(plus one for 65mm that fits the same tank) and spools to shoot 65mm. Their website has a LOT of information too.

 

[Hassasin]

Thanks again for more details, it all helps. I've got a full set coming with two cassettes, finder extension etc. I'll start looking for some film and I think I can get it initially processed with equipment of a friend of mine, at least to get started.