Pentacon Six framing solution...

[moto-uno]

I got one about a half year ago and fell in love with it . It then had the shutter curtain not completely closing at 125th speed .
I followed an online cleaning video ( a bit of work ) and speeds are fine and the spacing is good , about 2~3 mm . Which easily
allows for a 13th picture . It's a good handling camera with a great selection of reasonably priced lens . Peter

 

[StepheKoontz]

I used to put a few extra pieces of backing paper in between the first round or so on the take up spool on my P6. You really can't overdo this as the worst case you end up with too much spacing and I never had that happen lol. And yes, great camera but a really bad transport design (that wasn't fixed when they made the exacta 66), crappy focus screen (mine has a maxwell), bad waist level finder (mine has an Exacta 66, much improved) and the focus screen area is really small, it's like an 80% finder. In some ways the Kiev 60 was a better design, but was very poorly executed. I do have a very funky old Kiev K60, rebuilt by the "real" Hartblei guys, labeled as a 1006c and covered in some crazy snake skin. This camera works perfect but it felt like I was doing a drug deal or something with this guy in eastern europe to get it, and it cost like 3 times what a new K60 sold for new back then.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

That's the coolest thing since the Leica R3 Safari.

Bad news for the snake, though.

 

[StepheKoontz]

That's the coolest thing since the Leica R3 Safari.

Bad news for the snake, though.

I'll be shocked if there is another like it anywhere lol.

 

[shutterfinger]

The seller got bit mutiple times skinning the snake.

 

[Nokton48]

Yes Stephe but I had a Kiev 60 covered with black and white cobra skin....... Cameraleather did that for me.

 

[Nokton48]

And Lest we not forget Kevin Ing's Red Snake Kiev................
A true Kievaholic

Kievaholic Red Skin by Nokton48, on Flickr


www.kievaholic.com

 

[StepheKoontz]

The K88 was such a sketchy camera... "walnut cruncher" was the only way to describe the film advance lol. At one point I owned one that used 'blad backs and it was very smooth, so IMHO what killed those cameras wasn't a poorly made camera but a badly manufactured and designed film backs.

 

[Nokton48]

Yes I agree about the backs. I also had a real Hartblei K88 that took Blad backs. It worked well with never a problem.

 

[alex2345]

This camera works perfect but it felt like I was doing a drug deal or something with this guy in eastern europe to get it, and it cost like 3 times what a new K60 sold for new back then.
View attachment 220307

This guy was in western europe, in West Germany to be more precise. 20 years passed and your camera is still perfectly working. I suppose much more than 3 K60s would jam within this time And none of them would even dream to have MLU as your H1006c

 

[Nokton48]

Darkroom Print 3 Hot Rodded Pentacon Six by Nokton48, on Flickr

Back in the day this was the hottest Pentacon Six to be found anywhere. I sent the body to Dresden and they upgraded it to full Exakta 66 MK2 mode. The body was then covered with "Rollei SL66 Anniversary Diamond Rubber" which I procured from the Rollei factory. I had them make two identical bodies, due to the high shipping costs, and because this was such a coolass camera at the time.

Photograph made in my studio by direct flash. Hasselblad 100mm F3.5 Planar, 70mm Kodak Surveillance Film, processed in ADOX Borax MQ.

Silver gel print on RC paper

 

[thuggins]

The way the P6 pulls the film through, is totally archaic and extremely strange. A "star wheel" punches through the edges of the roll, and that action pulls it through. Except that the star wheel won't punch it's way through some thicker film bases (like Fuji Velvia).

This really isn't that strange. From my limited sample of old 120 cameras with counters, there are two basic mechanisms. The first uses a roller, as described above. This essentially works the same as a sprocket wheel in a 35mm camera. Sometimes there is a "star" that digs into the paper and insure there is no slippage, sometimes it is just a plain roller. There is no need (or reason) for the "star' to fully perforate the backing paper. These cameras should space properly regardless of the film/backing paper thickness as they are directly measuring the film as it passes. If such a camera has overlaps, there must be a problem with the mechanism.

The other method "counts" the turns of the take-up spool and has a "computer" (gearing) to adjust the turns for the varying diameter as the film winds on the take up spool. This is the way the Zeiss 532 works. These will lead to overlap on modern films (Provia, certainly, from experience). A six inch length of two inch masking tape stuck to the beginning of the backing paper solved this problem nicely.

Interesting comment about the different thicknesses from different manufacturers. The backing paper on the new Ektachrome isn't paper at all. It is plastic and it does feel thicker. I will need to dig out the mics to verify and also run a roll thru the 532.

 

[StepheKoontz]

This guy was in western europe, in West Germany to be more precise. 20 years passed and your camera is still perfectly working. I suppose much more than 3 K60s would jam within this time And none of them would even dream to have MLU as your H1006c

Yup, that was the guy. He hung out in the kiev Dephi forum. I think his name was Alex? It's been 20 + years.. I wish I had kept the hartblei K88 I got from him. Metal shutter, twist click mount that used blad backs. It really was a smooth operating camera but even all upgraded, I was afraid it was gonna break lol. I also still have a couple of P6's, one was "upgraded" and one is stock. They both still work OK other than the normal film transport issues. I honestly haven't used any of this in years. I should load one up with some film and shoot with that 180mm f2.8 Sonnar.

 

[alex2345]

Yup, that was the guy. He hung out in the kiev Dephi forum. I think his name was Alex? It's been 20 + years.. I wish I had kept the hartblei K88 I got from him. Metal shutter, twist click mount that used blad backs. It really was a smooth operating camera but even all upgraded, I was afraid it was gonna break lol. I also still have a couple of P6's, one was "upgraded" and one is stock. They both still work OK other than the normal film transport issues. I honestly haven't used any of this in years. I should load one up with some film and shoot with that 180mm f2.8 Sonnar.

Hi Stephe, that's right, it was me. And here is my 2nd camera, which is still perfectly working. It has only one additional upgrade - the Minolta Acute Matte D focusing screen produced for Hasselblad:

The first one with K88 mount, the Studio Master, I gave to my daughter. She tried also my H1006c, but did not really like it.

 

[StepheKoontz]

Hi Stephe, that's right, it was me. And here is my 2nd camera, which is still perfectly working.

Small world! Like I said, that is one thing I regret, selling the K88 twist click blad back model I got from you. It's probably still working out there somewhere.

It was so confusing back then trying to figure out who "the real Hartblei" was, as only one of them were making a really nice camera. The folks Michael Forman was using were obviously a different group of folks from the camera I got from you. I still have the 30mm fisheye, a 45mm super rotator TS 45mm, a 60mm Curtagon, a 80mm Hartblei Arsat and a 180mm f2.8 zeiss. Some really sweet glass

 

[alex2345]

It was so confusing back then trying to figure out who "the real Hartblei" was, as only one of them were making a really nice camera. The folks Michael Forman was using were obviously a different group of folks from the camera I got from you. I still have the 30mm fisheye, a 45mm super rotator TS 45mm, a 60mm Curtagon, a 80mm Hartblei Arsat and a 180mm f2.8 zeiss. Some really sweet glass

The real one is still hartbleilens.com hosted by Mr. Naumenko. The fake one is almost down because they have nothing to offer.
The K88 with the modification to accept Hblad backs is the uncorn because there are no specific details available anymore.

 

[Nokton48]

Hey Stephe.....
Remember this on the Delphi forum?
I sold the B&W Cobra skin 6c and prism, but still have this one
-Hassydan

FS Kiev60 Prism Cobra Skin by Nokton48, on Flickr

 

[thuggins]

My suspicions were correct. The backing "paper" on the new Ektachrome is.005. Velvia is .0035, and a roll of Ilford something is .004. Quite a surprising spread considering the importance of the thickness to the proper operation of some cameras. I will have to break out the 532 and run a roll of Ektachrome thru it. There should be no need to "thicken" the roll.

 

[StepheKoontz]

Hey Stephe.....
Remember this on the Delphi forum?
I sold the B&W Cobra skin 6c and prism, but still have this one
-Hassydan

Yeah, that was a fun time in my photographic journey. It's a shame the Exakta 66 didn't fix the film counter issue. The Schneider lenses were REALLY good. I still have the 60mm f4 Curtagon and need to go out shooting with it.

 

[Nokton48]

My suspicions were correct. The backing "paper" on the new Ektachrome is.005. Velvia is .0035, and a roll of Ilford something is .004. Quite a surprising spread considering the importance of the thickness to the proper operation of some cameras. I will have to break out the 532 and run a roll of Ektachrome thru it. There should be no need to "thicken" the roll.

The P6 and EX66 have a set of very sharp "star wheels" that punches all the way through the backing paper, but also the film stock as well. It's a quirky mechanism, I have hundreds and hundreds of rolls with top and bottom film edges punched by the star wheel. But, I always used Fuji Color Neg and all kinds of B&W 120/220 rolls, never a bit of problems.

The issue that a friend was having with his well-working EX66, is that the Velvia 50 film base is really tough stuff, and the EX66 star wheel could not completely punch through it. So he got overlapping frames on his Velvia 50 which ruined all these beautiful chromes from a trip to Alaska. Aaaaarrrggg As I remember he put the camera away at that point.........

 

[Nokton48]

Yeah, that was a fun time in my photographic journey. It's a shame the Exakta 66 didn't fix the film counter issue. The Schneider lenses were REALLY good. I still have the 60mm f4 Curtagon and need to go out shooting with it.

That was a crazy wild time at the Kiev Forum, like the old Wild West.
I sold off my Ex66/Hot Rodded P6's, Kievs, Hartbleis, etc.
Like you I knew that they would eventually go ka-flut. LOL
Now I am slowly selling off a big box of misc parts, it's slow going............

FS EX66 Advance Lever by Nokton48, on Flickr

EX66 Film Advance Lever, can be made to fit the P6. I got these from the Pentacon factory, they as a rule never sold any parts, only repairs at the time. They had one Gentlemen repairing/upgrading the P6's/EX66's, sadly he has passed. Now I understand Herr Peter Ohlbrich is picking up their repair work, he has done many good things for me in the past.

https://www.kievaholic.com/

 

[thuggins]

Interesting discussion about this camera. I had really been lusting after one, but am concerned about the condition of the shutter curtains (there is a separate thread on that topic). I opted for a Kowa Six instead, which is now with Ross Yerkes for a full (and quite dear) CLA of the camera and lens. Dealing with Ross is always an interesting experience. After a thorough CLA, though, the Kowa should be good for another 50 years.

 

[moto-uno]

^ Interesting , I'm the happy owner of 1 Kowa Six and 2 Super 66 . The two 66's were a true challenge to get working (many thanks to Ross for the necessary parts and encouragement ).
And to prove that stupid goes to the bone , I have 3 Pentacon Six TL's . All of them required work but were much easier to get working properly than the Kowa's . But I use them all regularly
and they all operate fine now. The Pentacons are a bit slower in use to maintain proper spacing , but hey at the price of medium format film , what's the rush , we're hardly using them
for sporting events . The Kowa lens are quite the jewelers challenge , and try to not use the lever when winding on film with the Kowa ,( I have some pics that justify that remark ).

 

[thuggins]

And to prove that stupid goes to the bone , I have 3 Pentacon Six TL's .

I'll ask directly, then. How are the shutter curtains holding up? I'd love to get get one but am very leery of focal plane shutters.

 

[Nokton48]

I'll ask directly, then. How are the shutter curtains holding up? I'd love to get get one but am very leery of focal plane shutters.

I've had four or five P6's, and an Exakta 66. The curtains have never been an issue for me. At the Kiev Delphi forum nobody hardly ever complained about curtains.

I would say that the 30mm Zodiak Fisheye, and the 180mm F2.8 CZJ Sonnar, are two of the major reasons so many people (in the past) jumped into the system. Others of us LEAPED in big time.

 

[thuggins]

The lens selection is a major draw. The choices with the Kowa are very limited and I figured that the 55mm, 85mm and the 110 would probably be it.