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Paterson lids get very firm.

Radost

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Hi, I have many Paterson tanks. The lids off all of them get very firm and i suspect it is after a wash in hot water.
They get very hard to close. Even a new one that I just purchased got very firm after 2-3 washes.
Have you experienced that?
I loose valuable time while developing closing the lids. It use to take me 2 seconds. Now it takes 10-15.
Thank You
 
Never noticed it, but I have only 1 Paterson tank and I've never washed it in hot water. It's an early production System 4 tank; not sure when those were introduced, but it's several decades old.
 
Mine are all purchased last 4-5 years.
 
No doubt the material is different from what they used decades ago. Especially plasticizers used will be different. I wouldn't be surprised if today's lids are more finicky and less tolerant to aging, temperature fluctuations and UV than those of yesteryear.
 
Not sure from material the lid is made of but it can be because of acetic acid sometimes used as stop solution.
 
Vintage Visual said:
Not sure from material the lid is made of but it can be because of acetic acid sometimes used as stop solution.
Click to expand...
I do use Kodak indicator stop for my stop bath… probably should stop putting a lid while minute stop. The stick might be enough to stop.
 
If you use the twiddle stick for your initial agitation, you can then take your time to get the lid on and check round it before the next agitation is required.
 
I use acid stop every time I develop B&W other than with Caffenol or Dektol (carbonate alkali developers). I've been using my Paterson Super System IV tanks for quite a few years and I don't see any stiffening of the inversion lids. This suggests that it's heat doing this rather than the acetic acid. I don't know any reason you'd need to wash a Paterson in hot water. Can you elaborate?
 
Never noticed that on my now more than 10-year-old Paterson tank, but I also only use water to stop development for BW film and wash the tank and lid with warm water (I guess it's not significantly more than 50ºC)...
 
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I just wash everything with very hot water. Don’t know why. I will get some new lids and wash with warm water to see if there is a difference.
 
Radost said:
I will get some new lids and wash with warm water to see if there is a difference.
Click to expand...

I rinse my Paterson (and Yankee) tanks and parts with cold tap water; the reels get a brushing with an old toothbrush before the last water rinse. They're fine so far, other than one (not Paterson brand, some compatible unit) reel that doesn't like 220 film.
 
I use room temperature tap water to rinse and wash my tanks.
 
I assume you are referring to the lids on the current, Super System 4 tanks - the ones that perform like a Tupperware lid.
I say that, because despite their age, there seems to be lots of the older System 4 tanks around on the used market.
I have been using my Super System 4 tanks for several years now.
I rinse my tanks frequently with room temperature water, and then wash up at the end of the session with hot water. Admittedly, the lids spend the least amount of time in the hot water. If the flexibility has changed I haven't noticed it.
Paterson are distributed in most parts of the world by Harman/Ilford's distributors. You might want to send your query to their technical representatives - @Harman Tech Service - using the Private Conversation function on Photrio.
 

I contacted Paterson. Waiting for a response. Might get a jobo 1520 to save on 120 development.
 
@Radost Interesting... I am in exactly the opposite situation: I switched to JOBO tanks because my Paterson lids have gotten soft over time and started to leak more and more. I just assumed that was because of me washing them in hot water. Looks like they've been using different grades of plastic over the years. I don't know when mine were manufactured because I bought them used (they looked brand new though).
 
When thanks were brand new they just locked with very little pressure. In 4 point a. Now they need a lot of pressure and get locked very hard.
 
Using lots of force when closing the lids is never good. Could it be you're overdoing the closing of the lids? Perhaps you think they're not closed, but in fact they are.

I do not know the Paterson tanks, I use Combina. I gave one of my tanks to a friend, for him to try it. He destructed the locking system right away by applying too much force.

I got my tanks (1 reel, 2 reels, 5 reels - 135 and 120) around 1980 and they're still working fine. They get used weekly. I do not rinse them with hot water. Just with water that's the same temperature as during developing, stopping and fixing.
 
My Paterson shows no problems - Reversal and exposure to bleach since 2016 - good as new.
It's important to start closing it from the center to push out all excess air - the lid then is easy to close hermetically.
 

I am not over doing it. In the beginning they close so easy : two opposite side pushes with 2 hands.
 
I am thinking to try a Jobo. The 2 120 in approximately 500ml developer is good on the pocket and saves time.
 
Gently warm the lids - in the dishwasher or otherwise - and put them on the tank while warm. Be sure to "burp" them. Then let them cool naturally.
 
Radost said:
2 120 in approximately 500ml developer is good on the pocket and saves time.
Click to expand...

I get this in my (much less expensive) "2-reel" size Paterson Super System IV -- by loading two rolls, one after the other, on a single reel; it's nominally 500 ml to cover the film and the same amount of film area per volume as most 35 mm single reel tanks.
 

I dry run a few times in a Paterson reel and it does not give me confidence. The red film stopper seam like a nice addition. I wish Paterson made those stoppers.
 
Two rolls on a single 120 AP clone reel (designed for Paterson tanks) works great for me - reliable and consistent.
First roll pushed all the way to the centre.
Second roll loaded until just past the bearings, leaving an appreciable gap between the two.
Inversion agitation only during all but the first 30 seconds of the development stage.
All other stages - 3 minute pre-rinse, acid stop bath, fixer, rinse, HCA - done using continuous reversing rotary agitation.
If you use rotary agitation for the development stage, the no doubt slippery films move too much and you risk them overlapping.
 

This sounds like a great plan. I use Jobo stuff these days but I've put 2 120 films on a Paterson reel, I made it difficult by taping the 2 films together.
I used Paterson tanks for years without a problem, haven't bought a new Paterson tank in 30 years so can't comment on the current lids.
AP type reels are great for 120, much simpler than Jobo.
I do really like my Jobo 1520 for processing 2 120 at a time.
 
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