Pardon my ignorance

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've been doing Ziatypes for a couple of months with a Bostick Sullivan kit and I really like it. So is there a difference between a Palladiotype and a Ziatype process? Are they the same since they both use palladium?

 

[Ian Leake]

The Ziatype uses only Palladium salts so it is correct to call them 'palladiotypes' or 'palladium prints'. It is also correct to call them 'Ziatypes' if you prefer.

All of the platinum/palladium processes rely on the same basic chemical mechanisms, although they differ in specific ingredients and how the print is made. Once the print is finished there is no real difference other than whether they contain platinum, palladium or both.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Thanks for explaining

The Ziatype uses only Palladium salts so it is correct to call them 'palladiotypes' or 'palladium prints'. It is also correct to call them 'Ziatypes' if you prefer.

All of the platinum/palladium processes rely on the same basic chemical mechanisms, although they differ in specific ingredients and how the print is made. Once the print is finished there is no real difference other than whether they contain platinum, palladium or both.

I'm still to with printing with precious metals. I have to admit that most of my printing so far has been testing. I've only gotten a few gems from my printing. I have a greater appreciation of platinum and palladium prints. And I'm cheating by using mostly digital negs. I'm now shooting large format with the intention of using them for my Ziatypes/palladiotypes.

Cheers!
Don

 

[Bob Carnie]

I don't think your cheating whatsoever using Digital negs... they have opened up the process for me and the results are wonderful.
we use a bit of platinum with all our prints.. but if we are doing gum over we use palladium only.

QUOTE=Mainecoonmaniac;1709075]I'm still to with printing with precious metals. I have to admit that most of my printing so far has been testing. I've only gotten a few gems from my printing. I have a greater appreciation of platinum and palladium prints. And I'm cheating by using mostly digital negs. I'm now shooting large format with the intention of using them for my Ziatypes/palladiotypes.

Cheers!
Don[/QUOTE]

 

[Ian Leake]

I'm still to with printing with precious metals. I have to admit that most of my printing so far has been testing. I've only gotten a few gems from my printing. I have a greater appreciation of platinum and palladium prints. And I'm cheating by using mostly digital negs. I'm now shooting large format with the intention of using them for my Ziatypes/palladiotypes.

Cheers!
Don

I'll second Bob's comments about inkjet negatives. While they're certainly off topic at APUG, they are also certainly not cheating. I rarely print with original negatives nowadays - they're simply too valuable. Good luck with your printing, Don - regardless of the type of negatives you use.

 

[Vaughn]

Palladium and platinum prints are developing-out processes, while Ziatype is a printing-out process.

Moisture content of the paper is more critical with Ziatypes as it affects printing speed greatly. Ziatypes have greater contrast control with negatives of high contrast due to its self-masking from the printing-out image during exposure. I have many negatives that have too much contrast for platinum/palladium prints (dev-out, no contrast agent) that I should be able to print in Ziatype. I don't though -- I print those in carbon.

Color control is higher with Ziatypes, also.

PS -- I use only camera negatives...just the way I roll...

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I like Ziatypes because it's a POP process

Palladium and platinum prints are developing-out processes, while Ziatype is a printing-out process.

Moisture content of the paper is more critical with Ziatypes as it affects printing speed greatly. Ziatypes have greater contrast control with negatives of high contrast due to its self-masking from the printing-out image during exposure. I have many negatives that have too much contrast for platinum/palladium prints (dev-out, no contrast agent) that I should be able to print in Ziatype. I don't though -- I print those in carbon.

Color control is higher with Ziatypes, also.

PS -- I use only camera negatives...just the way I roll...

After exposing the print, I just soak in water to remove the unexposed emulsion then into a bath of citric acid. I wash for about 15 minutes. Is that enough washing? I use sodium tungstate to warm up my print. On dry days I have to humidify my paper. I just got a used clothes steamer for Ziatypes. I wonder if I can just steam the back side of the paper before exposing the paper?

 

[Vaughn]

Consistency will be the key with Ziatypes. I have not used the process, so I have not yet had to deal with that issue. I'll let the Ziatype users chime in on that!

I use the developing-out platinum/palladium process and develop in Potassium oxalate, three clearing baths, then wash.

 

[Ian Leake]

After exposing the print, I just soak in water to remove the unexposed emulsion then into a bath of citric acid. I wash for about 15 minutes. Is that enough washing?

From your description, it sounds like you're only using one bath of citric acid for clearing. This is OK for one or two prints, but sub-optimal if you're clearing more but because it will quickly get dirty. The primary purpose of clearing is to remove invisible iron compounds from the paper. It can take several years for the damage from these compounds to become visible. The traditional three-bath clearing method has been proven to work by over a century of practice. It works for all the Pt/Pd processes including Ziatype.

The strength of the clearing agent and time required for clearing depends quite a lot on the paper you use. For Buxton and Herschel I clear work prints in 3% citric acid for about 5 minutes per bath, and finished prints for about 10 minutes per bath.

The purpose of the washing phase is to remove any remaining impurities - especially the clearing agent. Acid left in your paper will damage it over time. I wash work prints for about 20-30 minutes and finished prints for an hour.

I use sodium tungstate to warm up my print. On dry days I have to humidify my paper. I just got a used clothes steamer for Ziatypes. I wonder if I can just steam the back side of the paper before exposing the paper?

The easiest way to humidify paper is to tape it to a sheet of glass or flat plastic, and then to suspend it over a darkroom tray containing 1/2 inch of water. This guarantees even humidity across the paper. How long you need depends on your paper, room temperature and ambient humidity. My darkroom is typically 21°C and 55% RH so thankfully I don't need to humidify paper before coating.

 

[Loris Medici]

If you like Ziatype and can source ammonium tetrachloropalladite(II) - formula: (NH4)2[PdCl4], I strongly recommend that you try the actual print out Palladiotype process; Ware-Malde Palladiotype. I'm totally converted to it; it gives me much much stronger (= considerably darker / better dmax...) images!

The problem with Ziatype is that the stock palladium and iron solutions have quite weak concentrations (still, they give perfectly fine images...); OTOH, with Ware-Malde Palladiotype you can use up to 50% more palladium per given image area, and this translates to significantly better results - at least to me. (See the attached scan of two prints made on the same paper; one Ziatype, one Ware-Malde Palladiotype. The lighter upper part is the Ziatype, the darker and larger bottom part is the Ware-Malde Palladiotype...)


For clearing, I use Keith Schreiber's / Howard Efner's protocol, slightly modified: (all amounts per 2000ml solution)

1.First clear / rinse: (mix fresh for each print & discard after use)

- 1 dstspn. citric acid
3 minutes​

2.Acid clear: (keep and use for multiple prints)

- 1 tbspn citric acid
- 2 tbspn Na4 EDTA
- 1 tbspn sodium sulfite
(Each added in the above order, one by one, after the previous one is completely dissolved...)
3 minutes​

3. Alkali clear: (keep and use for multiple prints)

Same as 2, omitting citric acid
3 minutes​

4. 20 minutes wash

Edit: And if you have trouble in dry days, you can add 1 drop glycerin per ml of coating solution - it will help considerably to retain moisture in the paper. (Makes the process much more consistent too, works for both Ziatype and Ware-Malde Palladiotype...)

Hope this helps,
Loris.