Paper Developers?

Philippe-Georges · Jan 10, 2022

Tom Kershaw said:
One advantage of DS-14 is consistency of performance; I experimented with the E-72 formula before switching over. DS-14 replenisher is simply the developer formula without Potassium bromide.

Could you please show us the formula of the DS-14 you are using?

Tom Kershaw · Jan 10, 2022

DS-14:
Start with 750ml water (I use distilled)
[/TR]

Dimezone S	0.2g
ascorbic acid	6.0g
sodium sulphite, anhy	12.0g
sodium carbonate. mono	30.0g
triethanolamine, 99%	5.0ml
salicylic acid	0.5g
potassium bromide	1.0g

water to make 1000ml
note: I have been using Phenidone in place of the Dimezone S
ascorbic acid is food grade from eBay seller.

Philippe-Georges · Jan 10, 2022

Tom Kershaw said:
DS-14:
Start with 750ml water (I use distilled)
[/TR]
Dimezone S 0.2g
ascorbic acid 6.0g
sodium sulphite, anhy 12.0g
sodium carbonate. mono 30.0g
triethanolamine, 99% 5.0ml
salicylic acid 0.5g
potassium bromide 1.0g
water to make 1000ml
note: I have been using Phenidone in place of the Dimezone S
ascorbic acid is food grade from eBay seller.

Thank you Tom.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jan 10, 2022

michael_r said:
An additional advantage of DS-14 over other home-mix ascorbate developers is that it contains a “workaround” way of providing some protection of ascorbate from metal-catalyzed fast oxidation (ie Fenton reaction). I don’t know of any aqueous home-mix ascorbate formulas besides Ryuji’s DS developers which make any attempt to sequester iron/copper.

Halcyon has the same set of sequestering agents but it's not a paper developer.

markbau · Jan 10, 2022

After monkeying around with paper developers for 30+ years I am of the opinion that the final print is about 98% due to the paper and 2% due to the developer. I've tried them all, Muir's maximum black developer, Amidol, adding old developer, you name it, I've tried it and the resulting print is almost indistinguishable from a print developed in D 72 or Bromophen or one of the other common developers. Having said that, choice of developers does seem to affect how a print tones, but not to a large degree. Instead of worrying about exotic developers I would concentrate of trying to master the skill of burning and dodging which has a much greater effect on your prints than the minuscule changes you might get by changing print developers. I well recall the advertising blurb from Fred Picker trying to sell his "wonder developer" he said that his developer avoided the tendency of Dektol to "dump high values" whatever that meant. It's a good thing that Saint Ansel didn't know about this fatal flaw of Dektol. Mind you, Picker would say anything to try and sell his products and silly me did buy his spotmeter.

Kino · Jan 10, 2022

Just got a bottle of Liquidol and so far, so good.

albada · Jan 11, 2022

I'd like to try Ansco 130 for its legendary long life, but the equivalent Formulary 130 is no longer in Freestyle's website, and the Formulary itself says it's out of stock. Has anyone heard whether more will be produced?

Mark Overton

Renato Tonelli · Jan 24, 2022

albada said:
I'd like to try Ansco 130 for its legendary long life, but the equivalent Formulary 130 is no longer in Freestyle's website, and the Formulary itself says it's out of stock. Has anyone heard whether more will be produced?

Mark Overton

I would advise to either buy direct from the Formulary or buy the raw chemistry (not in kit form). Glycin has a rather short lifespan; I have had Formulary 130 kits sitting around for a couple of years and the packets of Glycin had all turned brown. It will still work, but it will stain the paper brownish, including the white borders of the print. I now buy the various ingredients separately and keep the Glycin in the freezer.

As far as I can tell, the Photographers' Formulary is the only place that produces Glycin in the USA.

Sal Santamaura · May 23, 2022

Renato Tonelli said:
I am a long time user of Ethol LPD and the thing I like best about it is its versatility, making useful for both cold-tone and warm-tone papers. I mix the stock solution 1+3 and sometimes 1+4 for warm-tone. The stock solution last a very long time.
I hope they keep making it; Ethol's parent company has ceased production of a vast array of chemistry. I do have enough to keep me going a couple of years.

MattKing said:
I have been looking to buy the powder version for nearly two years. It has been out of stock at all the online sources throughout that time. Even if it were in stock, B&H won't ship it.

Both Freestyle and Adorama currently have powder Ethol LPD in stock and are willing to ship. Freestyle is much more expensive:

Ethol LPD Powder Paper Developer - 1 Gallon | Freestyle Photo & Imaging

Diluted 1:4 LPD will produce warm tones and 1:1 for cold tones with strong blacks; this developer will retain exceptional tonal range. Very large print capacity and long shelf life.

www.freestylephoto.biz

Ethol LPD 1 Gallon Powder Black / White Paper Developer

LPD Powder Black & White Paper Developer, 1 Gallon

www.adorama.com

Does anyone use LPD stock or 1+1 with Multigrade RC Deluxe? If so, please characterize the image color prior to any toning. I seek neutral blacks, but the only way to obtain anything approaching that with this paper has been selenium followed by gold toning, whether developed in Eco Pro or MCC developers. I've tried Moersch SE6 but, as with every other RC paper developed in it, areas of even tone exhibit a fine mottle, which I consider likely due to a high level of restrainer. Thanks in advance.

Bill Burk · May 24, 2022

Darned brown Dektol. I may start buying cans

brian steinberger · May 24, 2022

Sal Santamaura said:
Does anyone use LPD stock or 1+1 with Multigrade RC Deluxe? If so, please characterize the image color prior to any toning. I seek neutral blacks, but the only way to obtain anything approaching that with this paper has been selenium followed by gold toning, whether developed in Eco Pro or MCC developers. I've tried Moersch SE6 but, as with every other RC paper developed in it, areas of even tone exhibit a fine mottle, which I consider likely due to a high level of restrainer. Thanks in advance.

Sal, are you referring to the new Ilford MGRC paper? For me I find it needs about 2-3 min 1:19 to neutralize. The older MGIV RC I could hammer in selenium for 4 minutes 1:9 and it was a nice cool black. I’ve always used LPD but recently have been using multigrade developer at 1:9 dilution and also get nice neutral cool blacks after selenium.

Sal Santamaura · May 24, 2022

brian steinberger said:
Sal, are you referring to the new Ilford MGRC paper?...

Yes, I haven't succumbed to the Internet habit of referring to it as "V."

brian steinberger said:
...For me I find it needs about 2-3 min 1:19 to neutralize. The older MGIV RC I could hammer in selenium for 4 minutes 1:9 and it was a nice cool black. I’ve always used LPD but recently have been using multigrade developer at 1:9 dilution and also get nice neutral cool blacks after selenium.

In the past I've tried any number of developers seeking a neutral image tone using other papers, only to find stubborn warmth with anything except Moersch SE6, and that one always causes a fine mottle on RC. Selenium shifts the tone with all of them, but never to neutral.

Ilford Multigrade developer has in my previous tests resulted in a yellow image tone on practically all papers, something that selenium could never eliminate, irrespective of dilution or time.

So far I've developed the latest Multigrade (RC Deluxe) in ADOX MCC Developer, Moersch SE6 and Eco Pro. The MCC and Eco Pro go as far toward neutral as they can (not close) before turning purple via Selenium 1+40 for three minutes at 74 degrees F. The expense and time/temperature touchiness of gold make going the rest of the way difficult and expensive. I'm reticent to repeat my effort obtaining many different developers and run the test again with Multigrade RC Deluxe.

If LPD + selenium can make a neutral image tone on this paper, I'd very much like to know, including whether you use the LPD stock or dilute it 1+1. Thanks in advance.

brian steinberger · May 24, 2022

Sal, I’m sure I’m not as meticulous as analyzing tones of these prints as you. I just shoot for tones that look good in many different lighting situations. I mainly try to get rid of any “green” tones as that is unpleasant to me. If it pushes slightly toward purple that’s not great either. I prefer developers that will push it toward blue black if anything in selenium. The previous MGIV FB went blue black with LPD as did the RC version as well. It seems the newer generation papers MGRC, Classic and Cooltone all want to run towards purple. I’ve had to change my selenium dilution to 1:19 for less time and I feel now I’m not getting protection. I quit using LPD as the last two packs I got from freestyle both mixed up quite brown and never had that issue in the past. And now at $24 a bag it’s too expensive to take a chance. I’m planning to start mixing my own PQ developer, the ID-62 formula and start messing around with adding PMT and trying to get longer selenium times with a shift toward blue black if anything. I can achieve it on classic with SE6, but that stuff is super expensive!

Good luck with your tests. I doubt you would notice much difference trying LPD compared to your other developers.

Paper Developers?

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