Panorama camera versus say a standard cropped out 35mm / 120 format camera.

[TheToadMen]

You've lost me completely. Please explain further.

To help focus your thoughts, look at this shot http://1drv.ms/1pvlksm taken with a 38/4.5 Biogon, a Century Graphic, and a 2x3 roll holder. Many are the cropping opportunities.

I'm asked to enter a password when I follow your link.

 

[NB23]

There is no substitute for the Xpan, the greatest camera ever created.

 

[StoneNYC]

There is no substitute for the Xpan, the greatest camera ever created.

Except the Mamiya 7ii with 35mm pano adapter

 

[NB23]

Except the Mamiya 7ii with 35mm pano adapter

No way. Not in a 100 years. Who wants to fiddle with 120 when there's the much more convenient 135?
The xpan fits inthe hand like a Leica. The Mamiya 7??

 

[Dan Fromm]

I'm asked to enter a password when I follow your link.

Thanks for the bad news. It should now work, please try again. The link is still http://1drv.ms/1pvlksm

 

[Dan Fromm]

There is no substitute for the Xpan, the greatest camera ever created.

Stuff and nonsense. All that can be done with an Xpan can be done at lower cost with a humble Century Graphic. And more can be done with a Century than with an Xpan. The Century offers a much wider range of focal lengths and greater cropping opportunities.

This isn't to denigrate the Xpan or the Alpa 12. Both are extremely well made and robust, are lovely artifacts. Users love both and its easy to understand why. But a Century Graphic is more capable and much less expensive.

 

[NB23]

Are you joking?

 

[StoneNYC]

Stuff and nonsense. All that can be done with an Xpan can be done at lower cost with a humble Century Graphic. And more can be done with a Century than with an Xpan. The Century offers a much wider range of focal lengths and greater cropping opportunities.

This isn't to denigrate the Xpan or the Alpa 12. Both are extremely well made and robust, are lovely artifacts. Users love both and its easy to understand why. But a Century Graphic is more capable and much less expensive.

True, more detail, and wider panoramic too if you add strips or 35mm

A little bulkier but can't beat the price!

I still think the Mamiya 7ii is better, better lenses (can't dispute this even if you want to, everyone knows they are the sharpest best MF lenses ever made, and you can both use 35mm and 120 in them, the 120 gives you more vertical surface area even if you plan to crop it in panoramic, and you have the option of no film gate so you can expose on the sprockets for that "Lomo" look but better definition images than any Lomo.

Price is higher, but less used than the xpan... And more lens options

 

[Sirius Glass]

Are you joking?

No he is not. The X-Pan is a great camera, but it is not the only camera that can take a great panorama photograph. WideLux also can do the job.

 

[NB23]

No he is not. The X-Pan is a great camera, but it is not the only camera that can take a great panorama photograph. WideLux also can do the job.

Can I add my expert advice too? An Iphone 5 is also damn fine and unbeatable panoramic camera in many aspects.

*yawn*.

 

[NB23]

True, more detail, and wider panoramic too if you add strips or 35mm

A little bulkier but can't beat the price!

I still think the Mamiya 7ii is better, better lenses (can't dispute this even if you want to, everyone knows they are the sharpest best MF lenses ever made, and you can both use 35mm and 120 in them, the 120 gives you more vertical surface area even if you plan to crop it in panoramic, and you have the option of no film gate so you can expose on the sprockets for that "Lomo" look but better definition images than any Lomo.

Price is higher, but less used than the xpan... And more lens options

For some reason, you really sound like a guy that doesn't own a Mamiya 7 and that has never tried a Xpan system.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

There are also panoramic cameras that have the lens move. Like the Widelux.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widelux

 

[Dan Fromm]

Are you joking?

Absolutely not. 2.25" x 3.25" is larger than 24 x 65 mm. The humble Century Graphic accepts a wider range of focal lengths than the Xpan. See http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf It has 19 mm of front rise. It costs much less. The only drawback is that for all lenses but the one its rangefinder is set up for the Century should be focused on the ground glass; this makes using it hand-held nearly impossible.

You sound like a person who's never used one or thought hard about what one can do.

 

[NB23]

Using a 4x5 for my work, I'd have a nervous breakdown after the second change of back.
You saw my picture I posted earlier? The rainbow was there for 10 seconds and it vanished. My crown graphic would have worked against me so much at that moment that I think I'd have pitched it on the ground so hard you wouldn't believe it.

We have different photographic styles therefore we define "ultimate" differently. But no way a mamiya beats a xpan and there's no way a 4x5 pano is as performing as an xpan except for people who value looking at prints with a loupe.
No, ansel adam's not my idol.

 

[TheToadMen]

Thanks for the bad news. It should now work, please try again. The link is still http://1drv.ms/1pvlksm

I tried, but it still says:

"Because you're accessing sensitive info, you need to verify your password."

It wants me to sign in with some sort of Microsoft account. That I won't do (even if I had one).
Don't know where or what it is.
Can't you post the image here in this thread instead?

 

[lxdude]

Interesting. I see it fine, no password. It's a Micosoft OneDrive account, whatever that is.
Maybe you're on a non-Microsoft operating system?

 

[Dan Fromm]

I tried, but it still says:

"Because you're accessing sensitive info, you need to verify your password."

It wants me to sign in with some sort of Microsoft account. That I won't do (even if I had one).
Don't know where or what it is.
Can't you post the image here in this thread instead?

Bert, I believe you. I just checked again and the file should be accessible to anyone who has the link. The link is still http://1drv.ms/1pvlksm

If you haven't closed your browser since this nonsense began, please close it (all the way, don't just close a tab), restart it and try again. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I tried the link. I had to agree to some Micro$oft agreement and then I could see the photograph.

 

[frank]

I saw the pic in the link on my ipad with no problems or agreements.

 

[TheToadMen]

Bert, I believe you. I just checked again and the file should be accessible to anyone who has the link. The link is still http://1drv.ms/1pvlksm

If you haven't closed your browser since this nonsense began, please close it (all the way, don't just close a tab), restart it and try again. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I closed and reopened my browser and it worked (thanks for the help).
And a beautiful image it is. You mentioned a 38/4.5 Biogon lens. This is the same (fixed) lens as on the Hasselblad SWC, isn't it?
Is the vignetting from the lens barrel or a hood, or is the image circle to small for this size negative?
Thanks,
Bert

 

[StoneNYC]

For some reason, you really sound like a guy that doesn't own a Mamiya 7 and that has never tried a Xpan system.

My do own the Mamiya 7ii but I have not used the xpan camera, but I'm still correct that the lenses are technically better on the Mamiya, I doubt very much that any eye could distinguish between them however, they are both excellent modern lens systems.

I've shot the Mamiya many times for panoramics, and a few times even without the film gate insert that blocks the sprockets.




I also own a 6x12 back for my 4x5

 

[Dan Fromm]

Bert, the lens is a 38/4.5 Biogon that I extracted from an AGI F.135 aerial camera. The late Steve Grimes put it in a Copal #0 for me. This is the same lens as sold with all vintages of Super Wide 'blads except the most recent.

The vignetting is due to the lens. It is made to cover 80 mm, in fact covers 84 mm sharply and illuminates 86 mm. It absolutely positively won't cover 2.25" x 3.25" (6x9 in metric) but will nearly cover 24 x 82. When cropped to 24 x 82 the last couple of mm in the corners aren't there at all.

 

[TheToadMen]

Bert, the lens is a 38/4.5 Biogon that I extracted from an AGI F.135 aerial camera. The late Steve Grimes put it in a Copal #0 for me. This is the same lens as sold with all vintages of Super Wide 'blads except the most recent.

The vignetting is due to the lens. It is made to cover 80 mm, in fact covers 84 mm sharply and illuminates 86 mm. It absolutely positively won't cover 2.25" x 3.25" (6x9 in metric) but will nearly cover 24 x 82. When cropped to 24 x 82 the last couple of mm in the corners aren't there at all.

Then it is the same lens. My Hasselblad SWC is from 1965. Very nice lens (and camera).

 

[Dan Fromm]

Right, Bert, the same lens. I remember how delighted you were when you saw your first shots with y'r SWC. Your happiness brought back memories. I tried out my 38 Biogon as soon as it came back from Steve and was so pleased with the results that I couldn't bring myself to use any other lens for nearly two months.

 

[europanorama]

Horizon horizontal angle corrected-120 degr.

An Xpan with a 90mm lens, and a cropped 6x7 from say, an RB67 wiht a 90mm will look the same. of course. The Xpan also has a 45mm lens, much wider. However, I have a 50mm lens for the RB67, and so get very close by simply cropping and using a slice of the negative that's 1" x 2.25'.

On the other hand, I also use a swing-lens Horizon that takes a rotating panoramic picture covering (IIRC) 120 degrees. It is a totally different animal.

dont even think about the horizon compact. its a total mess, non-focussable cam with reduced exposure times an apertures. Idiotic! Only lomo can have such a crazy idea. Not knowing how such a camera must work.
adox and mk-panorama-system is thinkg about a 3-lens rotapancam nikon lenses with 120 film 24/28 and 35mm. i have my doubts. it will not be better that roundshot 28/200 and 28/220 outdoors. the latter has longer exposure times added. fixed focus and no shift. until now i have not yet seen really good-quality prints. maybe you. yes the roundshot can be used without tripod which is a big advantage. there are multiple digital 360-pancams(one-shot) in the make. also for video. one or more are high-quality.