Overexposed lines on film

john_s · May 19, 2022

If it's something to do with how the concentrate mixed with the water, I remember when I used to use it I followed the instructions which were to make a stock solution 1+3, then to make working solution that stock would be further diluted. For example, dilution_B was made of stock diluted 1+7.
Maybe this procedure would ensure really thorough mixing?

pentaxuser · May 19, 2022

Vania said:
Sorry not at all what I am saying. If you read just a couple post up you will see that I have systematic streak with paper and acid stop bath. it's all explained in the post.

vania, I have found what I think you are referring to, namely point 3 in your earlier post . Again in all my years here I have never heard of a 2% stop bath affecting paper which in this case is Bergger paper. I don't believe Bergger warn against the use of a stop bath which suggests that there is nothing in the "correct" make-up of Bergger paper that adversely interacts with 2% stop bath It may be that there was something wrong with that pack or those sheets of Bergger paper. Given how convinced you are that 2% stop the cause maybe contact with Bergger is a sensible course of action.

So at least we are in agreement or are we that a water stop is OK for film? It's what I have used for about 12 years now for film simply because it is as easy for me to do this but I never had a problem with 2% stop when I did use it with film

Unless there has been some change to HC110 which now mitigates against 2% acid stop and Kodak have either not told the users about this( very bad) or failed to realise that it has brought about a change ( equally bad or possibly worse), I have real difficulty imagining this as a cause.

Given the issues with Kodak chemicals recently I suppose that anything is possible but I'd have thought that some users of HC110 would have experienced this defect by now

pentaxuser

bambiwallace · May 20, 2022

Vania said:
Please let us know of the result ! That was definitely on my to do list, another liquid developer.

I wonder what we do or use in common that sets us apart from the rest of HC110 users... and if there are regular HC110 users in these threads.

Vania said:
Tried dil H quite a few times already same result...

vania- how do you dry your film? i have experienced something similar to the lines on your negatives that you showed in your early posts. the lines on my film were caused by excess wetting agent running down the emulsion when it was almost dry. in addition to the lines i am seeing round marks (bubbles?)

logan2z · May 21, 2022

Vania said:
Please let us know of the result ! That was definitely on my to do list, another liquid developer.

As I posted in my other thread on this subject, my roll developed using Ilford DD-X does not have these streaks.

I'm going to develop another roll in DD-X to see if I can repeat these positive results.

I'll update the thread again soon...

Vania · May 23, 2022

john_s said:
If it's something to do with how the concentrate mixed with the water, I remember when I used to use it I followed the instructions which were to make a stock solution 1+3, then to make working solution that stock would be further diluted. For example, dilution_B was made of stock diluted 1+7.
Maybe this procedure would ensure really thorough mixing?

Thanks! Tried that already as I do a 1+31 large working batch because it last for so long and then diluted further up to dil H with still the same artefact.

Vania · May 23, 2022

pentaxuser said:
vania, I have found what I think you are referring to, namely point 3 in your earlier post . Again in all my years here I have never heard of a 2% stop bath affecting paper which in this case is Bergger paper. I don't believe Bergger warn against the use of a stop bath which suggests that there is nothing in the "correct" make-up of Bergger paper that adversely interacts with 2% stop bath It may be that there was something wrong with that pack or those sheets of Bergger paper. Given how convinced you are that 2% stop the cause maybe contact with Bergger is a sensible course of action.

Does it with 3 different batch of VC glossy warm, every time I used a stop bath, never with water , over maybe 10-12 prints. I am pretty convinced yeah ;-) and not so willing to waste more paper on test since I have an easy fix. And every time I notice the streak the print is in the stop bath. Never saw it appear though, but never saw it in the developer while looking for it either. I should contact Bergger if I find the time and courage to get into this.

pentaxuser said:
So at least we are in agreement or are we that a water stop is OK for film? It's what I have used for about 12 years now for film simply because it is as easy for me to do this but I never had a problem with 2% stop when I did use it with film

I have no experience with water as a stop with film except in my PMK days. So this is interesting to me. Do you fill and empty several times or just use one water bath ? Do you use a single fix bath ? Do you reuse your fix ? how many times ?

pentaxuser said:
Unless there has been some change to HC110 which now mitigates against 2% acid stop and Kodak have either not told the users about this( very bad) or failed to realise that it has brought about a change ( equally bad or possibly worse), I have real difficulty imagining this as a cause.

Given the issues with Kodak chemicals recently I suppose that anything is possible but I'd have thought that some users of HC110 would have experienced this defect by now

pentaxuser

The thing is that I have the same problem with Ilfotech HC, so this could be true if there was a common change in component(s) or source from both manufacturer... it's not impossible.

Vania · May 23, 2022

logan2z said:
As I posted in my other thread on this subject, my roll developed using Ilford DD-X does not have these streaks.

I'm going to develop another roll in DD-X to see if I can repeat these positive results.

I'll update the thread again soon...

Good to know. If it keeps well I might switch to DDX. So why does this happens to us and not other users of HC110 ? I suggested at some point for the sake of knowing that some interested HC110 users shoot a few zone VI-VII consecutive frames (3 or 4) of an even surface or a clear blue sky, which is where the artefact is most visible.

pentaxuser · May 23, 2022

vania I usually use at least 3 fills, several agitations and then dumps of water when stopping film

As far as Ilfotec HC is concerned, I agree that it s interesting that you should get exactly the same problem as with HC110. I think this is the first time I have seen this happen -probably because most HC110 users don't then try Ilford's equivalent developer

Could there be something in both that results in the problem? I can't say No but again other than you I don't think I have ever seen a Ilfotec HC user complain of a similar issue. The issue might of course be common to the process you use but unconnected to ether HC110 or IlfotecHC

When you had success with ID11 can you think of anything about the process that in any differed from the one you use with HC110 and IlfotecHC ?

pentaxuser

Vania · May 24, 2022

pentaxuser said:
vania I usually use at least 3 fills, several agitations and then dumps of water when stopping film

As far as Ilfotec HC is concerned, I agree that it s interesting that you should get exactly the same problem as with HC110. I think this is the first time I have seen this happen -probably because most HC110 users don't then try Ilford's equivalent developer

Could there be something in both that results in the problem? I can't say No but again other than you I don't think I have ever seen a Ilfotec HC user complain of a similar issue. The issue might of course be common to the process you use but unconnected to ether HC110 or IlfotecHC

When you had success with ID11 can you think of anything about the process that in any differed from the one you use with HC110 and IlfotecHC ?

pentaxuser

Nothing different in the process. Development time I tried was 13, 14 and 15 minutes instead of 6.5, 10, 13 with HC110 depending on dilution but with similar results. Same way I developed for decades (including a hell of a lot of HC110) without issues. On my second and 3rd run with ID11 I could easily lower the amount and frequency of agitation down to Ilford recommendation without any problem. With HC's devs if I don't agitate a lot the streaking gets even worse.

Do you reuse the fixer when using water as a stop bath ?

pentaxuser · May 24, 2022

Vania said:
Do you reuse the fixer when using water as a stop bath ?

Yes I treat the fixer no differently than I would if I had used an acid stop because I regard the film as being "stopped" in exactly the same way

pentaxuser

MattKing · May 24, 2022

If you use a water stop, your re-used acidic fixer won't last quite as long.
A water stop inevitably results in some developer carryover into your fixer, and that shortens the life of re-used fixer.
For most of us, the difference won't be great. If you are developing commercial volumes of film, that may be very important.
If you use a neutral or alkaline fixer, a water stop will lead to some development continuing all the way into the fixer stage. That may or may not be of concern to you.

Vania · May 24, 2022

MattKing said:
If you use a water stop, your re-used acidic fixer won't last quite as long.
A water stop inevitably results in some developer carryover into your fixer, and that shortens the life of re-used fixer.
For most of us, the difference won't be great. If you are developing commercial volumes of film, that may be very important.
If you use a neutral or alkaline fixer, a water stop will lead to some development continuing all the way into the fixer stage. That may or may not be of concern to you.

thanks

Vania · May 25, 2022

Last test with a water bath stop as well as premix of 1+3 24h before and mixing like a possessed zealot to dil B. Streaks are stil there. I am out of ideas.

Overexposed lines on film

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