Over Expose, Over Develop

[ericdan]

at least you get to see his work so you know where he is coming from ! very often on websites, like this one and handfuls of others no doubt,
there are people who write a lot, have a lot of very hard core opinions, but you never see any photographs they have made
so you have no clue where they are coming from. not that seeing photographs on the inter webs gives you an idea since if they
are uploaded theyare probably "enhanced" by editing software, but at least you get a gist... some people no gist, so you have to either dismiss them
or use your imagination ...

true, that's a good point.
can't help it., the bold claim in the title sounds a lot like click bait to me though.
judging by his other posts he mostly scans film and doesn't have much experience in the darkroom

 

[Bill Burk]

It was in part because of the bold claim he made that I subtitled my paper "The timeless appeal of the Zone System".

 

[ericdan]

I actually like Johnny's photos quite a bit.
I also shoot Tri-X at box speed and overdevelop it in Xtol 1:1
I don't agree on the zone system being dead and also didn't like that he deleted a lot of comments that were not positive.

 

[removed account4]

true, that's a good point.
can't help it., the bold claim in the title sounds a lot like click bait to me though.
judging by his other posts he mostly scans film and doesn't have much experience in the darkroom

that's ok he's getting people to visit he's getting his pt barnum on
he's got his work up there which is good. as i mentioned a lot of people
can't or don't upload any of their work for personal or whatever reasons
and they have similar bold claims but no one has any idea if they are actually
who they claim to be, or the 14 year old girl down the street poaching wifi off their neighbor
posing to be a 62 year old anselite prodigy.

I actually like Johnny's photos quite a bit.
I also shoot Tri-X at box speed and overdevelop it in Xtol 1:1
I don't agree on the zone system being dead and also didn't like that he deleted a lot of comments that were not positive.

people have opinions. i don't think anything is dead to be honest. for a process or style or whatever to be "dead" that means NO ONE at all
uses it. there are plenty of people who love the zone system or beyond the zone system or some modified version of the zone system .. as long as
there is film, paper negatives or hand coated plates there will always be people figuring out where they want middle grey to be and exposing and processing
their emulsion accordingly ... deleting comments, well there are a lot of haters out there, he probably ticked off an enclave of 62 year old anselite prodigies with
his bold retoric and inflamitory remarks. but the point of the internet to some people,is to be what in the 1980s fm radio used to refer to as a "shock jock"

 

[Nokton48]

Speaking of glass dry plates, Jason Lane sent me an IM, and suggested I should overexpose and overdevelop them. Hilarious, Thank You Jason

 

[CMoore]

that's ok he's getting people to visit he's getting his pt barnum on
he's got his work up there which is good. as i mentioned a lot of people
can't or don't upload any of their work for personal or whatever reasons
and they have similar bold claims but no one has any idea if they are actually
who they claim to be, or the 14 year old girl down the street poaching wifi off their neighbor
posing to be a 62 year old anselite prodigy.



people have opinions. i don't think anything is dead to be honest. for a process or style or whatever to be "dead" that means NO ONE at all
uses it. there are plenty of people who love the zone system or beyond the zone system or some modified version of the zone system .. as long as
there is film, paper negatives or hand coated plates there will always be people figuring out where they want middle grey to be and exposing and processing
their emulsion accordingly ... deleting comments, well there are a lot of haters out there, he probably ticked off an enclave of 62 year old anselite prodigies with
his bold retoric and inflamitory remarks. but the point of the internet to some people,is to be what in the 1980s fm radio used to refer to as a "shock jock"

What the heck does "anselite" mean.?
I have never heard the word and cannot find a definition.

 

[Jarin Blaschke]

Never mind grain, this could be the worst possible combination for tonality. Pasty flat highlights, anyone?

 

[Billy Axeman]

What the heck does "anselite" mean.?
I have never heard the word and cannot find a definition.

Ansel Adams lite

 

[removed account4]

What the heck does "anselite" mean.?
I have never heard the word and cannot find a definition

Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !

 

[CMoore]

Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !

Oh...Good Grief.....OK.
I suppose that is why it was not in a dictionary.......

 

[Doremus Scudder]

You know, I still think that the optimum exposure is the minimum possible to make the best possible print. Optimum development is that that gets you to the sweet spot on your paper's contrast range. Adding a bit of a safety factor for exposure is often a good idea, but consistently overexposing past optimum by two or more stops has disadvantages.

The increased grain is one disadvantage. However, for me, having to shoot at a shutter speed two or more stops slower than I could, and risk blur due to subject movement, etc. is the largest disadvantage. I find ISO 100 film too slow for most field work, especially with moving water, wind, etc. I spend enough time waiting around for the wind to die down as it is. If I could expose less and use a faster shutter speed and get an equally good, or even better, print, I'd certainly be doing that

Best,

Doremus

 

[DREW WILEY]

The old "thick negative" approach somehow got stuck in the traditional mentality of Tri-X contact printers who once worked with very low contrast papers like Azo 1 &2; and one still encounters certain workshop teachers (especially of the past generation) advocating this approach. But it's basically counterproductive to overexpose and overdevelop modern films using modern VC papers. There are a few noted silver printmakers still using this technique; but I have no doubt they'd have a far higher rate of home-run prints if they could relearn things. Those special images they attribute to darkroom luck are a lot easier to predict if the full range of the film is used, starting with realistic rather than paranoid shadow placement (way too high up the curve). Blown out highlights are the risk; and you see it in quite a few of their "fly ball" prints. I have sometimes used a modest degree of thick-neg technique with 8x10 HP5 sheet film in order to accentuate edge effect and expand midtone microtonality; but in such cases, I need a supplementary unsharp mask to rein in the cumulative range. So there are all kinds of potential options. The Zone System per se can be applied to any number of these options, if it is to your liking. Just because certain ole thick neg practitioners used the ZS and expected to make disciples of their own personal tweak does not mean it was necessarily the version used by others.

 

[Nokton48]

Here's another go (not anything great; just a quick simple but slight adjustment) the original post I'll agree was way too contrasty. Frankly I chose Fuji Neopan since this was a two minute exposure. When and if I silver print it I'm sure it will look better than this!

Makiflex Acros 150 SymmarS by Nokton48, on Flickr

Atrium, Ohio State University Library of Geology

 

[jvo]

what doemus scudder said, waaayyy back at the beginning...
"I might submit that if you are getting the results you desire, then you're not overexposing or overdeveloping...Doremus"

 

[removed account4]

what doemus scudder said, waaayyy back at the beginning...
"I might submit that if you are getting the results you desire, then you're not overexposing or overdeveloping...Doremus"

BOOM !!

 

[Pioneer]

I just finished hanging some TMAX 100 negatives to dry that were exposed at EI40 and then developed in HC110b as if they were exposed at EI200. It will take me a touch longer to get these printed but I do have to say that the negatives look pretty good.

We'll see.

 

[mark]

Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !

And has a beard.

 

[Vaughn]

Hi CMoore
An Anselite is ...

Sounds/looks ta bit like Budlite.
Sort of like saying the followers of Minor White are called minor Whites.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

You have never heard of hard tack or have never poured milk over your bread?

Besides, that is a lousy analogy. People eat all kinds of things that make me shudder.

Negatives aren't bread and I hate thin negatives. They are a royal pain to work with. But obviously there are people who do like to work with them. I am not one of them. But, I have been known to purposely underexpose a lot of negatives in my time. If I have a choice I don't.

The first thing I learned when I started this hobby was that not even my wife likes most of my pictures so I was pretty sure I wasn't going to sell many, if any, pictures.

The second thing I learned is that there are a whole lot of ways to get from snapping the shutter to a picture on the wall. If you don't believe me look at all the books and blogs out there and there are more popping up every year.

The third thing I learned is that most people do it differently than I do and that is actually OK. I like the way I do it and I am willing to bet that they like the way they do it. Besides, once Kodak sold me that roll of film I can do anything I want with it.

Finally, St Adams is still a sacred cow to a lot of people and they don't like it when you run over their sacred cow let alone try to butcher it.

This friend speaks my mind.

Photography has an inordinate share of anal retentives. The only people worse are those in audio, especially vinyl.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Me as a darkroom photo teacher in 2019:
“Hello bunch of politically correct vegan dudes.

Pick a film. Any film.
Shoot it in manual mode without a meter, just go with your feelings.
Remember, class, go with your feelings. Any shuter speed is a good one. Feeling happy? Choose 1/sixty.
Feeling sad? Choose B.
Play with that ring. 5.6, 2, or 11, it’s all the same! We are not racist, we love them all the same. Rock the ring, guys!

When your roll is over, take any developer you like and develop that film. If you feel happy, develop in hot water, if you feel sad, develop in cold water.

When you’re done, you’re done!

We will call this art. Optimum flat or not.

Bravo everyone! Let’s give ourselves a good applause!

And remember: the new rule is no rules!

Bye bye now! See you next week”.

Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !

It's a great word. The Oxford dictionary needs to recognize it.

 

[MattKing]

Sort of like saying the followers of Minor White are called minor Whites.

No, but they apparently believe in pre-visualization.

 

[Bill Burk]

When we gather together they call our group a minorchy

I know, I know... you didn't see that coming.

 

[Pioneer]

When we gather together they call our group a minorchy

I know, I know... you didn't see that coming.

Not really sure but I think you may be posting in the wrong thread Bill...

 

[Nokton48]

Automatic Makiflex 150 Xenotar by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's another one

Makiflex 150mm F2.8 Schneider Xenotar wide open with two 4X ND filters, Ilford FP4 6.5x9cm rollfilm (bracketed, best neg scanned), Microdol-X The Xenotar is a bit of a cult lens, a joy to own and use; love the funky bokeh

 

[Nokton48]

Here's another couple

Scan-

Scan-