Over Expose, Over Develop

ericdan

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
1,359
Location
Tokyo
Format
35mm RF
true, that's a good point.
can't help it., the bold claim in the title sounds a lot like click bait to me though.
judging by his other posts he mostly scans film and doesn't have much experience in the darkroom
 

Bill Burk

Subscriber
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
9,323
Format
4x5 Format
It was in part because of the bold claim he made that I subtitled my paper "The timeless appeal of the Zone System".
 

ericdan

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
1,359
Location
Tokyo
Format
35mm RF
I actually like Johnny's photos quite a bit.
I also shoot Tri-X at box speed and overdevelop it in Xtol 1:1
I don't agree on the zone system being dead and also didn't like that he deleted a lot of comments that were not positive.
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
true, that's a good point.
can't help it., the bold claim in the title sounds a lot like click bait to me though.
judging by his other posts he mostly scans film and doesn't have much experience in the darkroom

that's ok he's getting people to visit he's getting his pt barnum on
he's got his work up there which is good. as i mentioned a lot of people
can't or don't upload any of their work for personal or whatever reasons
and they have similar bold claims but no one has any idea if they are actually
who they claim to be, or the 14 year old girl down the street poaching wifi off their neighbor
posing to be a 62 year old anselite prodigy.

I actually like Johnny's photos quite a bit.
I also shoot Tri-X at box speed and overdevelop it in Xtol 1:1
I don't agree on the zone system being dead and also didn't like that he deleted a lot of comments that were not positive.

people have opinions. i don't think anything is dead to be honest. for a process or style or whatever to be "dead" that means NO ONE at all
uses it. there are plenty of people who love the zone system or beyond the zone system or some modified version of the zone system .. as long as
there is film, paper negatives or hand coated plates there will always be people figuring out where they want middle grey to be and exposing and processing
their emulsion accordingly ... deleting comments, well there are a lot of haters out there, he probably ticked off an enclave of 62 year old anselite prodigies with
his bold retoric and inflamitory remarks. but the point of the internet to some people,is to be what in the 1980s fm radio used to refer to as a "shock jock"
 

Nokton48

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
2,999
Format
Multi Format
Speaking of glass dry plates, Jason Lane sent me an IM, and suggested I should overexpose and overdevelop them. Hilarious, Thank You Jason
 

CMoore

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
6,222
Location
USA CA
Format
35mm
What the heck does "anselite" mean.?
I have never heard the word and cannot find a definition.
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
What the heck does "anselite" mean.?
I have never heard the word and cannot find a definition

Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !
 

CMoore

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
6,222
Location
USA CA
Format
35mm
Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !
Oh...Good Grief.....OK.
I suppose that is why it was not in a dictionary.......
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2002
Messages
3,596
Location
Eugene, Oregon
Format
4x5 Format
You know, I still think that the optimum exposure is the minimum possible to make the best possible print. Optimum development is that that gets you to the sweet spot on your paper's contrast range. Adding a bit of a safety factor for exposure is often a good idea, but consistently overexposing past optimum by two or more stops has disadvantages.

The increased grain is one disadvantage. However, for me, having to shoot at a shutter speed two or more stops slower than I could, and risk blur due to subject movement, etc. is the largest disadvantage. I find ISO 100 film too slow for most field work, especially with moving water, wind, etc. I spend enough time waiting around for the wind to die down as it is. If I could expose less and use a faster shutter speed and get an equally good, or even better, print, I'd certainly be doing that

Best,

Doremus
 

DREW WILEY

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
14,014
Format
8x10 Format
The old "thick negative" approach somehow got stuck in the traditional mentality of Tri-X contact printers who once worked with very low contrast papers like Azo 1 &2; and one still encounters certain workshop teachers (especially of the past generation) advocating this approach. But it's basically counterproductive to overexpose and overdevelop modern films using modern VC papers. There are a few noted silver printmakers still using this technique; but I have no doubt they'd have a far higher rate of home-run prints if they could relearn things. Those special images they attribute to darkroom luck are a lot easier to predict if the full range of the film is used, starting with realistic rather than paranoid shadow placement (way too high up the curve). Blown out highlights are the risk; and you see it in quite a few of their "fly ball" prints. I have sometimes used a modest degree of thick-neg technique with 8x10 HP5 sheet film in order to accentuate edge effect and expand midtone microtonality; but in such cases, I need a supplementary unsharp mask to rein in the cumulative range. So there are all kinds of potential options. The Zone System per se can be applied to any number of these options, if it is to your liking. Just because certain ole thick neg practitioners used the ZS and expected to make disciples of their own personal tweak does not mean it was necessarily the version used by others.
 

Nokton48

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
2,999
Format
Multi Format
Here's another go (not anything great; just a quick simple but slight adjustment) the original post I'll agree was way too contrasty. Frankly I chose Fuji Neopan since this was a two minute exposure. When and if I silver print it I'm sure it will look better than this!

Makiflex Acros 150 SymmarS
by Nokton48, on Flickr

Atrium, Ohio State University Library of Geology
 
Last edited:

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
what doemus scudder said, waaayyy back at the beginning...
"I might submit that if you are getting the results you desire, then you're not overexposing or overdeveloping...Doremus"


BOOM !!
 

Pioneer

Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
3,880
Location
Elko, Nevada
Format
Multi Format
I just finished hanging some TMAX 100 negatives to dry that were exposed at EI40 and then developed in HC110b as if they were exposed at EI200. It will take me a touch longer to get these printed but I do have to say that the negatives look pretty good.

We'll see.
 

mark

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
Messages
5,703
Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !

And has a beard.
 

Vaughn

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
10,105
Location
Humboldt Co.
Format
Large Format
Hi CMoore
An Anselite is ...
Sounds/looks ta bit like Budlite.
Sort of like saying the followers of Minor White are called minor Whites.
 

Paul Verizzo

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
1,643
Location
Round Rock, TX
Format
35mm

This friend speaks my mind.

Photography has an inordinate share of anal retentives. The only people worse are those in audio, especially vinyl.
 

Paul Verizzo

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
1,643
Location
Round Rock, TX
Format
35mm

Hi CMoore
An Anselite is a follower of the Photographic Teachings of Ansel Adams, you know
uses a Large Format Camera, practices the Zone System, makes beautiful emotion filled
photographs &c. Sorry, I made the word up on the spot !

It's a great word. The Oxford dictionary needs to recognize it.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,159
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Sort of like saying the followers of Minor White are called minor Whites.
No, but they apparently believe in pre-visualization.
 

Bill Burk

Subscriber
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
9,323
Format
4x5 Format
When we gather together they call our group a minorchy

I know, I know... you didn't see that coming.
 

Pioneer

Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
3,880
Location
Elko, Nevada
Format
Multi Format
When we gather together they call our group a minorchy

I know, I know... you didn't see that coming.
Not really sure but I think you may be posting in the wrong thread Bill...
 

Nokton48

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
2,999
Format
Multi Format
Automatic Makiflex 150 Xenotar
by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's another one

Makiflex 150mm F2.8 Schneider Xenotar wide open with two 4X ND filters, Ilford FP4 6.5x9cm rollfilm (bracketed, best neg scanned), Microdol-X The Xenotar is a bit of a cult lens, a joy to own and use; love the funky bokeh
 
Last edited:
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…