One way or two way rotation with the Jobo?

Mahler_one · Apr 11, 2009

Same age...how do you get into the car without becoming a pretzel....I am pretty limber, still about 6'1''...I can get in, but can I get out?! GREAT CARS!!!

I think the tanks can be used in the same way jp...the volumes listed worry me a bit. The small volume listed ( about 120 cc more or less ) on the 2840 is for prints, and for 11x14 I think I need about 16 oz of solution ( DDX at 1:9 usually ). Of course, I poured in 480cc of water, and the tank easily holds that much, turns easily on the CPP, and is easily lifted using the lift and support with the right hand. So, I think the next thing is to take a photo, and see what happens. Any residual anti-halation layer should be easily removable in a tray of clean water.

We must be amongst the most senior people on APUG....I wonder if we should consider forming a "Senior Citizen APUG" category here....seriously....some of us are new ( like me ) to LF photography, and others simply want to share concerns with issues that might not affect our younger colleagues...anyone else out there interested in an "older than ???" group?

Thanks JP....do you do anything differently with the 2800 tanks rather than the expert tanks?

jp80874 · Apr 11, 2009

Ed,
Same age...how do you get into the car without becoming a pretzel....I am pretty limber, still about 6'1''...I can get in, but can I get out?! GREAT CARS!!!

The Speedster solves that problem. No self respecting Speedster owner would dare drive with the top up. You sign a contract at purchase even second hand. Getting out is as simple as exiting your bathtub, but that is not why they call it that.

I think the tanks can be used in the same way jp...the volumes listed worry me a bit. The small volume listed ( about 120 cc more or less ) on the 2840 is for prints, and for 11x14 I think I need about 16 oz of solution ( DDX at 1:9 usually ). Of course, I poured in 480cc of water, and the tank easily holds that much, turns easily on the CPP, and is easily lifted using the lift and support with the right hand. So, I think the next thing is to take a photo, and see what happens. Any residual anti-halation layer should be easily removable in a tray of clean water.

You are new to this. Yes you do have to take a photo – mandatory unless you are one of the 50% of all Leica owners the factory says keeps their camera in the collector’s closet.

My 2830/2560 is roughly 5.5 “ x 21.75” outside dimensions just to confirm we are talking similar pieces. I just use the standard dose of 1 ltr water, 15ml part A, 30 ml part B of Rollo Pyro. That may be too much but it has worked well for three years. I would hate to start experimenting now.

We must be amongst the most senior people on APUG....I wonder if we should consider forming a "Senior Citizen APUG" category here....seriously....some of us are new ( like me ) to LF photography, and others simply want to share concerns with issues that might not affect our younger colleagues...anyone else out there interested in an "older than ???" group?

If you look about here and the LF Forum http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/index.php I think you will find there is a crowd of folks on either side of our age. You will see a lot of threads on how to move this stuff around and how Brett Weston said nothing further than 50 feet from the car is photogenic. I use http://babyjogger.com/perf_jogger_lp.aspx. Welcome aboard and enjoy.

Thanks JP....do you do anything differently with the 2800 tanks rather than the expert tanks?
Nope.

John Powers

Mahler_one · Apr 14, 2009

You mean the camera is actually to be used JP? But....what is that flimsy sheet stuff in the boxes....you know, the stuff with the notches on one end....seriously, thanks for the help...and, the information about the volumes JP.

Had no idea about the 50% of Leica owners, etc.

Ed

wiggywag · Apr 14, 2009

I've have the Jobo myself, one way rotation is for film, 2-way is for paper, I found out after calling Jobo USA. This is especially important with roll film or you can experience the film to unroll the reels during the development. I also believe the agitation becomes to harsh with the two way option for film.

jp80874 · Apr 14, 2009

Mahler_one said:
Had no idea about the 50% of Leica owners, etc.
Ed

Quote attributed to an unnamed factory rep by Leica posting folks on the Rangefinder Forum. That is about as loose as facts come, but it makes the people on the forum feel good because they all say they use their cameras. Supposedly the OTHER people put theirs in the china cabinet. I guess I am safe because my 7x17 won't fit in our china cabinet.

John Powers

Ed Sukach · Apr 14, 2009

wiggywag said:
I've have the Jobo myself, one way rotation is for film, 2-way is for paper, I found out after calling Jobo USA. This is especially important with roll film or you can experience the film to unroll the reels during the development. I also believe the agitation becomes to harsh with the two way option for film.

???? In, lo, these many moons of using the CPP2 in developing 120 and 35mm film, with "2-way" rotation (two revolutions clockwise followed by two counterclockwise), I have NEVER had film of any sort "unwind" from the reels - not even close!!!

As far as the effects of "continuous agitation" ...

In my (wound and scar obtained) OPINION, nothing affects the quality of film development less than various patterns of agitation.

I have heard of so many, from simple and reasonable ... "Invert the tank once every 30 seconds", to the truly bizarre: "Tie the tank to the left rear leg of your favorite mount in the next camel race.."
Unless the agitation is truly unusual -- a danger to the survival of the bench - or "stand" (read "very little" - usually very good!!) I haven't seen anything wrth worrying about.

I've read the idea of "reducing development time - due to continuous agitation, by 10% - 20%."
In "wringing out" film, one starts with available information, and tweaks ISO film speed, developing time/ temperature (even types and brands of developers) to settle on "what works for me". Over these many years, I've usually (very) come CLOSE to "BOX" speed and manufacturer recommended time/ temperature - whether or not using the JOBO and continuous agitation.

There! I realize that some (possibly "many"?) will view this as blasphemy of the first water, and will relish the opportunity to attack me as some sort of vile heretic, bent on corrupting the delicate minds of those "emerging photographers" here.
Not so. I would simply suggest that one spends their time and energy investigating other avenues that will prove to be far more interesting.

jp80874 · Apr 14, 2009

Ed Sukach;782907 I realize that some (possibly "many"?) will view this as blasphemy of the first water said:
Ed,

Don't hold back. Say what you really mean.

I'm with you. I have been meshing gears on this thing for four years now and in several film formats from 120mm to 7x17 inches and not had a problem with two way rotation and film.

John

Mahler_one · Apr 15, 2009

ditto with me John....the only reason I brought the entire bit up about one vs two way rotation is because of that little gear that can change the rotation, and a few things I have read. So, I asked the question. Shoot me Ed! :}

Ed Sukach · Apr 15, 2009

I'm not going to slam anyone. There are **many** concepts flying around in photography that are on the same level --- actually LOWER - than myths, without any sort of support, either from rational thought or experience.
An example would be: "One MUST use the middle range (sometimes, "wide open") of enlarging lens apertures to obtain maximum quality. As one stops down, quality decreases significantly - DUE TO DIFFRACTION!!!"

A half - maybe 1/4 truth. Quality may be minimally affected - but NOT because of diffraction. The optimum aperture will be established by design requirements, and "quality" will be distributed within certain limits from that center. An absolute LIMIT would be the aperture diameter that reaches a "diffraction limit" - and lens apertures will be limited so that they cannot be reduced to that diameter. If your lens - camera or enlarger - CAN be used at any f/stop, chances are very great that it will be FINE.

--- I'll have to apologize. This really is NOT the place to discuss "Myths" and half/ quarter truths/ plain lies.
Some time ago, I started a thread called "f/63", with that purpose in mind... "Stuff you HAD to do/ believe, that just was not true, and did not deserve intense worrying.

When I find time, I will try to resurrect that thread.
.

Mahler_one · Apr 15, 2009

Ed....that would be a great thread. I look forward to reading the information. Please let me know, if possible, when f63 is back.

The late Phil Davis also found it interesting to challenge, and then expose, other myths regarding the photographic process.

Daniel Huiting · Feb 7, 2017

Hi guys, I always use two way and for some reason my Jobo is stuck on one way and I don't know how to fix it. Can anyone tell me how to switch it back?

Thanks!

jeroldharter · Feb 7, 2017

As I recall there is a white plastic pronged lever near the base of the cog attachment. You slide that one way for back and forth movement and the opposite way for continuous movement. It has been a long time so I am not certain.

Daniel Huiting · Feb 7, 2017

Here is a picture of my Jobo. When I pull the two white pins on the side (which I have to use a lot of pressure to move) it moves the white lever sticking out on the right of the picture (near the cog attachement) but that just changes whether I use the upper attachment or the lower (for different size drums), it doesn't change speed. I moved the triple prong piece on the left of the picture behind the lift, and nothing really happened either. Any help would be appreciated as I'm trying to develop some 8x10 film tonight as a test before a shoot with the same camera tomorrow. Thanks!

jeroldharter · Feb 7, 2017

The switch is the 3-pronged white thing on the lower left of the photo.

These are the instructions from the Jobo CPP instruction manual:

"
Reversal Switch

This mechanism controls the automatic reversal of rotation during processing. It will reverse rotation direction every two revolutions. Turn the fingers away from the magnet coupling (or cog gear, if using JOBO Lift) to provide rotation in one direction only. (Almost all processes are best done with reversal of rotation.)
"

jeroldharter · Feb 7, 2017

If you watch the beginning of this video you will see the little switch going back and forth. The switch in the video is in the proper orientation for bi-directional rotation. As I recall, you need to rotate this switch to its opposite orientation for single direction rotation.

Sirius Glass · Feb 7, 2017

I only use the two direction rotations for C-41 color and black & white film. Never had a problem. Others have already provided the reasons for using two directions. An additional point is that the Jobo was designed to be used in two directions.

Daniel Huiting · Feb 7, 2017

Unfortunately I think somethings broken. The three prong switch still switches back and forth directions when I move it manually, but when I put it in the cog, it just pushes it to the side without changing directions (I have tried this in both directions and nothing changes.) Also the motor no longer seems to have an effect on the speed. It just goes one speed :SLOOOOOWWWW.

Time to send to CATLABS I guess?

jeroldharter · Feb 7, 2017

If you are processing large format film in Jobo Expert drums and doing black and white only, then I suggest you get a Beseler or Unicolor roller base. Much easier in the end and quite controllable. Takes up minimal space as well and much less expensive.

Sirius Glass · Feb 7, 2017

Daniel Huiting said:
Unfortunately I think somethings broken. The three prong switch still switches back and forth directions when I move it manually, but when I put it in the cog, it just pushes it to the side without changing directions (I have tried this in both directions and nothing changes.) Also the motor no longer seems to have an effect on the speed. It just goes one speed :SLOOOOOWWWW.

Time to send to CATLABS I guess?

I use http://www.darkroomdoctor.com/ Dave and Norma Smith. Great people for Jobo processors and parts. I highly recommend them.

Tim Stapp · Feb 8, 2017

FYI, I've recently contacted Dave Smith and he informed me that he has "retired" from JOBO repairs.

Sirius Glass · Feb 8, 2017

Tim Stapp said:
FYI, I've recently contacted Dave Smith and he informed me that he has "retired" from JOBO repairs.

Hopefully he will still give repair advise and sell Jobo parts and tanks. He and his wife have been wonderful to me on Jobo question and parts as well as Omega enlarger parts.

One way or two way rotation with the Jobo?

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