on 4x5 cameras and lenses.

[Murray@uptowngallery]

If only if were as easy to find a rough 5x7 Speed Graphic as a
4x5.

A rough 4x5 is far cheaper than the choices of available 5x7 cameras.

I have a duck-taped-bellows Speed and a replacement belloes but I just don't want to put a replacement on yet...there is something about having a junker that works I enjoy.

 

[mjs]

Stephanie;

Congratulations on the pending arrival of a dedicated portrait subject! I haven't heard of development of a 'poop' developer yet but chemists are a creative bunch: if they can do it with coffee and tea...

If you don't end up with the Graphlex you bid on, consider a 4x5 monorail such as an old Calumet CC-400 series or its Kodak or Burke & James equivalents. They often go for around $100 on Ebay (I got mine for $36) and are extremely useable. Very nice cameras, actually, and more portable than they appear. I carried mine through hill and dale (and downtown streets and alleys,) for a couple of years before I got the Wehman 8x10. Kodak 127mm Ektars or (especially,) the single-coated Fuji 150mm f/6.3 lens also often can be bought for less than $100, in working shutters, and with careful shopping you might be able to get a camera and lens for less than $100 (I did.) The Fuji lens in particular is an extremely nice lens; the 127 Ektar just barely covers 4x5 and doesn't give much extra coverage for movements, but it has a very nice "look" all its own. A few older wooden 4x5 film holders (can be found for about $5 each, since everyone wants the more modern plastic ones,) and you are in business. Good luck!

mjs

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Someone else bit and I'm not about to get into a bidding war over THAT camera. I'm going to look around a bit more.

A monorail camera is a good idea, but I'd rather have the press camera. I don't see myself really doing much with movements (yet) so I can get a monorail at a later date if I'm still interested in doing 4x5 photography. One thing you have to remember is that I'll be, unfortunately, contact printing stuff for a while anyway. The enlarger I've managed to find is only good for up to 6x7, IIRC.

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

I use a 4x5 speed regularly. I use the focal plane shutter most of the time as I've only one lens with working shutter. I buy used barrel lenses. Of the ones I own, I like the old Kodak Anastigmat's the most. Uncoated but sharp stopped down, I've a 7" Anastigmat from the early 50's that is excellent. Cost me a whole $12. I too use a dremel, find some scrap plastic that is opaque (old computer cases, etc) and use that for a lens board. I made a post several years ago on graflex.com explaining how I make my lens boards.
basically like /------X------\
where the X is the lens, and the ends are just tapered.

These cameras are easy to fix yourself, even if you aren't that mechanically inclined. My one major problem is that people try to align them and inevitably unalign them. Badly. If you start 'goofing with it' so to speak, be prepared to spend the time to ungoof it I've been there. I'm there right now.

I paid $90 for body. You can get a good deal, there are so many of them out there. Even if the focal plane shutter is slow, that's a simple fix usually.
There's an Ed Romney Speed Graphic guide. I'm not sure if you can still buy it but if you can it's worth it's weight in gold. I own it, I don't think i'm legally allowed to reproduce it but if I could I would.

You can contact print 4x5, that works for a while. I'm still making cyanotypes and van dykes. It's an awesome camera once you get used to it.
Sorry for the ramble!

 

[Nick Zentena]

Big name press cameras cost more then they are worth IMHO.

If you really must have a press camera a B&J is often a fraction of the price of a similar condition camera from anybody else. Better movements to. The only downside is no graflock back.

If you intend to leave the house with the camera I'd also advise against the heavy old monorails. Instead look at something like an Afga/Ansco woody. The 5x7s often with 4x5 reducing backs aren't that expensive. While they aren't light they are easier to pack then a big monorail. Downsides are they don't handle extreme 4x5 wide angle lenses. OTOH a 5x7 contact print is nicer then a 4x5 contact.

 

[DougGrosjean]

Big name press cameras cost more then they are worth IMHO.

If you really must have a press camera a B&J is often a fraction of the price of a similar condition camera from anybody else. Better movements to. The only downside is no graflock back.....

Stephanie,

Seconding the above.

I was like you about 6 months ago, looking for a press camera. Researched the Busch, Burke & James, and the Graflex. Figured whatever one I could get in OK shape for an OK price, I'd be happy with.

Ended up with a B&J with a 135mm Heliar lens and about 6-8 filmholders for $135. Groundglass is a grid. Added a Polaroid filmholder for something like $40. The rangefinder wasn't working (no silvering on the mirror, and out of adjustment), so I fixed those problems. Shutter was slow, so I paid $90 for a CLA, and now that's fine.

When I do my part properly, it takes great photos. Very dreamy textures, not as sharp as I'd expected by still sharper than any of the MF cameras I've got (except maybe my Kodak Medalist).

I bought it for some family portraits, but haven't used it much for that yet. Getting the hang of it on other subjects first, and sorting out the myriad other things on the LF learning curve. It's taken me about 4-5 months to work out processing with nice even tones, etc.

Sharing because it might be the way you want to go as well, to open up your options a bit. I'm guessing here, but it's for baby portraits?

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Considering the fact that my baby is 7 months away yet, at first it's going to be more for getting the hang of large format in general. I'll probably do some landscapes and portraiture with it using some cheap 100 ISO film (most like Arista EDU Ultra 100 because it's good) and develop for a while in trays. I'll then do contact prints.

 

[DougGrosjean]

Considering the fact that my baby is 7 months away yet, at first it's going to be more for getting the hang of large format in general. I'll probably do some landscapes and portraiture with it using some cheap 100 ISO film (most like Arista EDU Ultra 100 because it's good) and develop for a while in trays. I'll then do contact prints.

Ah.... you're like me then, allowing 6 months to a year to at least gain competency. Good plan.

Hoping to buy some photo paper and do some contact printing myself, but haven't yet.

4x5 is a very cool way to really get to the basics, one shot at a time.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Should I invest in a tank for developing 4x5 film? I don't know the cost of them since I haven't looked, but I do think it would most likely be easier to get a tank than use trays.

 

[ricksplace]

Hi Stephanie.

Combi-Plan makes a nice tank that can be used with the room lights on once the film is loaded. There is a thread on the combi-plan tank here somewhere.

If you decide to go with trays, get someone to show you how to develop sheets in a tray without scratching them.

I have two speeders. I tend to use the older (pre-anny) speed since lens boards are easy to make yourself. 1/8" hardboard makes good lensboards, and is easy to cut and work with. I use the old pre-anny with a bunch of barrel lenses, each with its own lens board.

Have fun.

 

[DougGrosjean]

Should I invest in a tank for developing 4x5 film? I don't know the cost of them since I haven't looked, but I do think it would most likely be easier to get a tank than use trays.

If you look at past threads, preferences are all over the map. You'll end up trying several ways and using what works for you.

I have a Yankee tank I'd give you, but I wouldn't be doing you any favors if I did. Takes a LOT of chemistry. And I couldn't conistently got even development out of it. Was very frustrating, but I went that route because tanks are what I was used to in MF and 35mm.

Then I tried fairly large trays, with maybe 4 sheets at a time, one in each of the corners. Didn't like it, not convenient, and it used a fair amount of chemistry too.

So then I tried a slosher tray from Ebay for $20, about $70 when new. Great! Perfect development, 6 sheets at a time. But still uses a lot of chemistry, and sometimes I get impatient waiting to have 6 shots to dev.

So finally I bought some small trays, and I process 1-2 sheets at a time. At first you'll probably scratch a few, but that's life - you'll improve. Small tray maximizes chemistry depth for a given amount of chemistry. I re-use developer for several sheets now instead of doing it one-shot.

Oh, and I just do it in an inside bathroom in the evening with a towel closing the crack / light at the bottom. Easier to load / re-load there as well, since I'm not dealing with a changing bag that way.

Oh, and I bought a 60-minute egg timer, then engraved a groove on the stationary face at 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and 15 minutes; so I can time everything completely in the dark by feel and know where I'm at as far as time left.

 

[Nick Zentena]

Should I invest in a tank for developing 4x5 film? I don't know the cost of them since I haven't looked, but I do think it would most likely be easier to get a tank than use trays.

What do you use now?

The Jobo 2500 type tanks can take reels from 35mm to 4x5. Used tanks aren't too expensive. New 4x5 reels are about $30. One reel will handle six sheets.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

The tank I have is just a generic one for 2 35mm and 1 120. I thought about upgrading last year, then didn't. I may look into the Jobo tank just because my reels are getting horribly hard to load and cleaning them only does so much...time for new ones anyway.

 

[Murray@uptowngallery]

Some people carefully roll a sheet and put a rubber band around it, call it a 'film taco' and process in a cylindrical tank. Probably no advantage chemistry-wise.

Developing tubes are very efficient chemistry-wise.

Black ABS pipe is light tight, but I can't find it readily in my state (supposedly because no plumbing codes require it, it's not carried in place of cheaper PVC). I'm told PVC is not light tight.

You can BUY developing tubes, but used is probably the only budget way to go. I think they are far more than regular tanks.

I know someone who uses small food containers with smooth edges.

Murray

 

[darinwc]

Stephanie,
what price range are you looking at for a camera?
i have a crown graphic I am looking to sell and some other lenses i can ditch on the cheap side.

Developing.. i've used an 8x10 print drum before with good results. Great for 4 sheets at a time with hardly any chemistry. Once the drum is loaded and sealed, you can process with the lights on.

 

[Jim Jones]

A tank like the FR or Yankee might be useful for washing negatives, but some users complain of problems with uneven developing in them. We tend to shoot many fewer exposures on sheet film than on 35mm or rolls, so tray developing may not be as bad as one expects. The Yankee requires 55 ounces of chemicals for 4x5 film. A 5x7 (more convenient than 4x5) smooth bottom tray uses maybe 1 or two ounces with constant agitation. Even though an ounce of developer has enough capacity for several sheets of 4x5 film, disgarding it after each sheet isn't very expensive. Inexpensive kitchen electronic timers work fine for tray development. A little music in the darkroom helps, too.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Stephanie,
what price range are you looking at for a camera?
i have a crown graphic I am looking to sell and some other lenses i can ditch on the cheap side.

Developing.. i've used an 8x10 print drum before with good results. Great for 4 sheets at a time with hardly any chemistry. Once the drum is loaded and sealed, you can process with the lights on.

I replied to your email. Hopefully you'll get it. Am I right to say that the Crown doesn't have the focal plane shutter?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Yes, that's right, the Crown doesn't have a focal plane shutter. The Speed does. Not the Crown.

For more information on Graphics, visit www.graflex.org and read the FAQs.

 

[Changeling1]

The Speed Graphics FP Shutter

I replied to your email. Hopefully you'll get it. Am I right to say that the Crown doesn't have the focal plane shutter?

was a great idea that didn't work out so well. Those FP shutters were a constant source of trouble in addition to adding a considerable ammount of weight to the camera. One problem was the "kick" of the shutter firing was enough to affect focus. Graflex finally stopped making the Speeds. If the FP shutter isn't to your liking or isn't working you can lock it open and use a standard lens in shutter. If you're not hand-holding the camera, the added weight of the FP shutter won't be too much of an issue.

IMO, part of the fun of using a Speed or Crown Graphic IS hand-holding the camera as the press photographers did way back in the day. Using the old flash guns with the flash-bulbs is fun also. Fortunately there seems to be an endless supply of flash bulbs available on the auction site.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

was a great idea that didn't work out so well. Those FP shutters were a constant source of trouble in addition to adding a considerable ammount of weight to the camera. One problem was the "kick" of the shutter firing was enough to affect focus.

Er ...not quite. Old-time pressmen swore by the reliability of the Speed Graphic shutter, which was of non-self-capping design, which means that its slit did not close when the shutter was being wound and the shutter had four separate slits along its length instead of the single self-capping variable-width slit that modern FP shutters have. The Graphic FP shutter came into its own for action shots at a time when leaf shutters could only offer a top speed of 1/200 or 1/250 and worked fine with flashbulbs, particularly the long-peak FP type. Vibration was not a problem - for slower exposure times, photographers would use the front leaf shutter. FP shutters became redundant when electronic strobe flash became standard - of course a camera without an FP shutter is lighter and cheaper to make and does not need as deep a body.

Regards,

David

 

[Dan Fromm]

Changeling1, I'm with David. Yes indeed, my Speed Graphic's FPS goes off with a great BANG!. But the BANG! happens when it stops, i.e., after the film has been exposed.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[Jim Jones]

If the Speed Graphic stopped with a bang, the Graflex started with a WHUMP! They could capture sharp images, though.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I think that having the focal plane shutter will give me more options than not having it, therefore I should look for a Speed instead of a Crown. The main issue is that, at this point, I just want something that works. My budget is lower than I'd like it, but I'm pretty sure it's high enough to get a user Graphic, some film, and a cheap lens.

 

[John Kasaian]

If you look at past threads, preferences are all over the map. You'll end up trying several ways and using what works for you.

I have a Yankee tank I'd give you, but I wouldn't be doing you any favors if I did. Takes a LOT of chemistry. And I couldn't conistently got even development out of it. Was very frustrating, but I went that route because tanks are what I was used to in MF and 35mm.

Then I tried fairly large trays, with maybe 4 sheets at a time, one in each of the corners. Didn't like it, not convenient, and it used a fair amount of chemistry too.

So then I tried a slosher tray from Ebay for $20, about $70 when new. Great! Perfect development, 6 sheets at a time. But still uses a lot of chemistry, and sometimes I get impatient waiting to have 6 shots to dev.

So finally I bought some small trays, and I process 1-2 sheets at a time. At first you'll probably scratch a few, but that's life - you'll improve. Small tray maximizes chemistry depth for a given amount of chemistry. I re-use developer for several sheets now instead of doing it one-shot.

Oh, and I just do it in an inside bathroom in the evening with a towel closing the crack / light at the bottom. Easier to load / re-load there as well, since I'm not dealing with a changing bag that way.

Oh, and I bought a 60-minute egg timer, then engraved a groove on the stationary face at 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and 15 minutes; so I can time everything completely in the dark by feel and know where I'm at as far as time left.

Yankee tanks make great pencil holders! They hold lots of pencils. Not so good for souping film

 

[darinwc]

Stephanie, Got your email, but it sounds like you are more interested in a speed graphic than a crown. I peeked at ebay and im surprised at the prices people are asking. I looked at the cameras that actually sold, and you should be able to get a decent camera at your price. Just have to be patient.