Nudity and the Web - What's Our Responsibility?

[Early Riser]

I choose not to shoot nudes or people for that matter. I did it in my advertising days but won't do it now, it's simply too much of a hassle. What's strange is just how willing some women are to pose nude. I get offers from women, both in person and through emails to photograph them nude. I've even had a woman come up to me at one of my openings and ask me, in front of my wife, to shoot her nude. Why is that? I'm a landscape photographer, I could understand if I was showing nude work.

My point is that many women want to be photographed nude and can even be aggressive about it. I do think though that what they may want to do today, can possibly cost them dearly in the future. It is their choice though, one can only hope that choose good photographers with integrity. It is the photographers responsibility to be professional and have integrity.

 

[wirehead]

Well, think about it this way, Early Riser.

If a large percentage of modern women have posed for nudes, it's no big deal and will cease to be scandalous. Remember, it was very hard for Louis Réard to find a model who would pose in the first bikini... he had to hire a nude dancer instead of a fashion model... yet now it's no biggie to be photographed in one.

 

[patrickjames]

Of course you are right, Patrick. It's just that you put a lot of work into your post, and I thought I owed you the courtesy of a reply. My initial post DID address BIll's topic. If you want to continue the discussion, I suggest you address it with me via PM.

Sanders

Better yet Sanders, If you are ever in San Diego, or I am in New York, I will buy you a beer. Probably several.

Patrick

 

[Ed Sukach]

The views expressed on another site might be of interest ...

[ http://www.communityzoe.com ]

 

[Robert Brummitt]

More broadly, I have shot literally hundreds of women. A shoot for me lasts two hours.

Sanders[/QUOTE]

This is the Police. We want to discuss with you regarding "Shooting" Hundreds of women?

No really, I can see Ruth Berhard stomping the silver clouds over our heads. "Shooting" is what you do with a gun or with a bow. We're photographers. We photograph and we don't "take" photos either. We photograph. I know I'm opening myself to lots of rankor but Shooting is a negative word. It's a word used alot in the news. Someone shot this person, place or thing.

Forgive my rant. I think I'll go out and photograph something and maybe have a beer and a "Shot".:rolleyes:

 

[bill schwab]

The views expressed on another site might be of interest ...

Thanks Ed, Been there. Zoe was actually a member here... for about a day.

Bill

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Thanks Ed, Been there. Zoe was actually a member here... for about a day.

... and I lasted at CZ for not much longer than that. Zoe booted a friend of mine whose work disagreed with her, and I left out of solidarity.

 

[copake_ham]

More broadly, I have shot literally hundreds of women. A shoot for me lasts two hours.

Sanders

This is the Police. We want to discuss with you regarding "Shooting" Hundreds of women?

No really, I can see Ruth Berhard stomping the silver clouds over our heads. "Shooting" is what you do with a gun or with a bow. We're photographers. We photograph and we don't "take" photos either. We photograph. I know I'm opening myself to lots of rankor but Shooting is a negative word. It's a word used alot in the news. Someone shot this person, place or thing.

Forgive my rant. I think I'll go out and photograph something and maybe have a beer and a "Shot".:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

=================================================

I think we had the "shooting" thread back around October.

Besides guns and bows....

"shooting" is also something you do when you:
1) toss dice in a craps game
2) maneuver a canoe or kayak through rapids on a stream
3) do with "the breeze" when you're a gabbing with a friend
4) do on a pool table
5) engage in a game of basketball in order to score points
etc.

Besides, I enjoy shooting photographs and the subjects in them!

 

[grahamp]

Having 'shot' them, we proceed to 'hang' them on the wall. I suppose it goes with the almost mediaeval aspects of part of this discussion

OT: I must have read Casino Royale when I was about 13, if not younger...as did my wife. The film is surprisingly faithful to it.

 

[bjorke]

That's why I prefer the word "Ogle"

unambiguous four-letter clarity

 

[Roger Hicks]

What's our responsibility?

To try to change society so that this sort of thing (cries of shock and horror that a woman in her 50s modeled nude in her 20s) doesn't happen.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Ian Leake]

Hurrah for common sense!

What's our responsibility?

To try to change society so that this sort of thing (cries of shock and horror that a woman in her 50s modeled nude in her 20s) doesn't happen.

Cheers,

R.

 

[wfe]

What's our responsibility?

To try to change society so that this sort of thing (cries of shock and horror that a woman in her 50s modeled nude in her 20s) doesn't happen.

Cheers,

R.

Thank you Roger !!!


Cheers,
Bill

 

[markbb]

I will go on record as being decidedly pro-eroticism. I like eroticism. I like erotic photgraphy and I believe that there is room in fine art photography for eroticism.

Good for you for being so candid with your views. The problem, as I see it, is what you consider to be acceptable eroticism may not be shared by people from other cultures, and when one posts images on the internet should one take note of such differences? If we take the publish and be dammed approach, do we not run the risk of having a larger body of work censored?

I'm fully aware that most of the contributors to these forum are from the USA, and hence there is often an assumption by a poster that the norms of that country apply - does this help spread the underlying philosophy of APUG?

 

[markbb]

What's our responsibility?

To try to change society so that this sort of thing (cries of shock and horror that a woman in her 50s modeled nude in her 20s) doesn't happen.

Cheers,

R.

Which society?

 

[Ian Leake]

I would start with any society that oppresses people who are proud of the bodies they were born in. Or any society that promotes the view that nudity is somehow dirty and unwholesome. Or any society that can't tell the difference between nudity and sex. I know that to a greater or lesser extent that covers pretty much everywhere, but we've got to start somewhere.

Which society?

 

[jstraw]

Good for you for being so candid with your views. The problem, as I see it, is what you consider to be acceptable eroticism may not be shared by people from other cultures, and when one posts images on the internet should one take note of such differences? If we take the publish and be dammed approach, do we not run the risk of having a larger body of work censored?

I'm fully aware that most of the contributors to these forum are from the USA, and hence there is often an assumption by a poster that the norms of that country apply - does this help spread the underlying philosophy of APUG?

My views about eroticism do not run contrary to ideas about context and cultural sensitivity. That said, I do not believe the litmus test should ever be could this offend someone, somewhere.

The most erotic nude I've ever seen here, I consider quite tame. I have seen nothing that challenges the limits of good taste, especially when you consider that no one sees a gallery picture here that hasn't paid for the privilege. This is a site for grownups that are serious about photography. Yes, that opinion is subjective.

 

[copake_ham]

What's our responsibility?

To try to change society so that this sort of thing (cries of shock and horror that a woman in her 50s modeled nude in her 20s) doesn't happen.

Cheers,

R.

Oh please, I didn't take up photography thirty-years ago to enlist in anyone's "cause".

I do not think it is the responsibility of photographers to change society. Some of us just like taking pictures!

 

[Ian Leake]

I totally agree. The National Portrait Gallery in London recently held an exhibition called Face of Fashion with work be several celebrated photographers. I was offended by at least half the images shown - people in pain, celebrities made up to look as if their throat had been cut, ugliness everywhere.

But one of the roles of art is to allow creative people to test the boundaries of society. And just because I was offended does not mean those photographs were not someone's valid artistic expression; and hence have a right to be shown. That famous misquote of Voltaire springs to mind: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

That said, I do not believe the litmus test should ever be could this offend someone, somewhere.

 

[Ed Sukach]

But one of the roles of art is to allow creative people to test the boundaries of society. And just because I was offended does not mean those photographs were not someone's valid artistic expression; and hence have a right to be shown. That famous misquote of Voltaire springs to mind: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

To test and EXPAND.

Dr. Bergen Evans once said, "The role of Art is not to support society and its conventions, but to allow its members a way to escape from them."

 

[ilya1963]

http://www.saudek.com/en/jan/zivotopis.html

Here is a link to a website of an artist , I admire his work and what he stands for , I have posted it here before and I am sure a lot of people are familiar with his work , but to me he is an epitome of what you are all are circling around
Artist is the only one who knows how much commitment to his/ her art to make and what sacrificing to make on the way...

 

[Rolleiflexible]

That famous misquote of Voltaire springs to mind: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

<soapbox>As opposed to the politics of Rudy Giuliani, who served eviction papers on the Brooklyn Museum for exhibiting the work of Nigerian artist Chris Ofili. Quite an uneasy relationship with notions of free expression, for a man running for President. </soapbox>*

-----
* See Bjorke, "Forum Civility," Post # 39.

 

[Ed Sukach]

<soapbox>As opposed to the politics of Rudy Giuliani, who served eviction papers on the Brooklyn Museum for exhibiting the work of Nigerian artist Chris Ofili. Quite an uneasy relationship with notions of free expression, for a man running for President. </soapbox>*

I remember that. Shortly after, I received a fancy letter from the Giuliani campaign, signed by Rudy himself ... asking me for my support and a sizeable contribution ... with definite undertones of, "... And you will be an insider".

-- And I don't even live in New York!

Needless to say, the letter was NOT successful. Not even a little bit!

 

[eddym]

Good for you for being so candid with your views. The problem, as I see it, is what you consider to be acceptable eroticism may not be shared by people from other cultures, and when one posts images on the internet should one take note of such differences? If we take the publish and be dammed approach, do we not run the risk of having a larger body of work censored?

Hells bells, letting a woman leave the house unaccompanied by a man is not acceptable in some cultures. If we take the "let them run wild" approach, do we not run the risk of some of them posing nude for photographers?
Tongue planted firmly in cheek, I am going out to "shoot" some photos!

 

[copake_ham]

And let me figure all this out. We're up to what now, around 8 pages or so?

Here in 2007 we're still debating pics of "nekkid ladies"?

For crying out loud, if he's reading this thread, Hugh Hefner (age 81 and still alive and --ckin' ) must be laughing his butt off right now!

As must be his first "bunny" is she's still around!

Let it go, guys. The women have left the thread and you're now beating up a very defunct equuine!