Nova Print Processor, any other similar setups?

[logan2z]

I have been using a Nova Monochrome (not heated, 3 slots) for fiber for about a year now.

Good to know. Don't know why they can't make their fiber clip in a size suitable for the RC machines.

Do not move the processor when it is full of liquid! I was washing it out and carried it over to dump out the water when I dropped it, half-full, on my foot. Here is the aftermath--I was wearing sandals at the time (Hey, I'm in So Cal).

Ouch! Disappointing that the processor can't be practically moved when full of chemistry . I don't think I really want to leave the processor full of chemicals in my bathroom and having to drain it at the end of each printing session eliminates a significant advantage of the processor.

You're in SoCal? We're practically neighbors - give or take a few hundred miles

 

[bdial]

What exactly is a US market Nova quad? Is that a processor that was available when Nova had US distribution?

I'd be more than happy to use an RC processor but Nova's own web site seems to discourage it . Not exactly sure what it is they think makes the RC processor unsuitable for FB paper or why it's important to angle the slots for fiber. I've dropped them an email and hopefully they'll respond soon .

Also, out of curiosity, is the Nova suitable for a non-permanent darkroom? I've read that it's not recommended to move the processor when it's full of chemistry . If that's the case then I'd need to empty the chemistry after every printing seesion, which would seem to nullify one of the processor's primary advantages.

The quad is similar to the current trimate with a water jacket and heater, but it has 4 slots. The fourth slot is set up with a large diameter outlet to be a wash. I use it as a second fixer bath.
I didn't buy mine new, but it is from the time when they were actively importing them to the states, and they had a version with a 110 volt heater, it's basically an aquarium heater, without much in the way of electronics. It has a simple thermostat and a variable-resistance heat selector. They've made several changes to the heating system since mine was made, for a while they had a upgrade available, but I think that got dropped some time ago.

The FB model uses a frame that supports the paper on all four sides, it seems. That would be useful for single-weight papers, but for the usual double-weight paper, I've had no problems using the clips, even with Ilford Art 300. I suppose the holes the clip makes are visible, but you need to look for them, and I'd presume they are less apparent on a fiber paper after drying than RC. If you print with borders, then the holes for the clip land in the border area pretty easily. My processor is 12x16, I use two clips with fiber paper if it's the full 16 inches, and often use two clips for flexible papers like Art 300 with 11x14 paper.

Moving a Monochrome processor with liquid is probably feasible, but would take some care. My quad is pretty heavy with the jacket and the 4 slots full. Moving it full is not an option if it involves lifting it. If you need to move it in and out of a temp darkroom you may want to investigate getting a cart that it can stay on, assuming you can spare the space.

For a darkroom with limited space, the Nova's are better than sliced bread. And if you print regularly (and don't have to worry about moving it) it's great for speed too, take the floating lids off and you're ready to turn off the lights and start printing. The developer lasts a very long time, if you use an inherently long-lived developer like Ansco 130 or Liquidol, the developer can last weeks.
The Nova is one of my favorite pieces of gear in my darkroom, if it somehow died unrepairable tomorrow, I'd order a replacement asap in spite of the costs.

 

[logan2z]

The quad is similar to the current trimate with a water jacket and heater, but it has 4 slots. The fourth slot is set up with a large diameter outlet to be a wash. I use it as a second fixer bath.
I didn't buy mine new, but it is from the time when they were actively importing them to the states, and they had a version with a 110 volt heater, it's basically an aquarium heater, without much in the way of electronics. It has a simple thermostat and a variable-resistance heat selector. They've made several changes to the heating system since mine was made, for a while they had a upgrade available, but I think that got dropped some time ago.

The FB model uses a frame that supports the paper on all four sides, it seems. That would be useful for single-weight papers, but for the usual double-weight paper, I've had no problems using the clips, even with Ilford Art 300. I suppose the holes the clip makes are visible, but you need to look for them, and I'd presume they are less apparent on a fiber paper after drying than RC. If you print with borders, then the holes for the clip land in the border area pretty easily. My processor is 12x16, I use two clips with fiber paper if it's the full 16 inches, and often use two clips for flexible papers like Art 300 with 11x14 paper.

Moving a Monochrome processor with liquid is probably feasible, but would take some care. My quad is pretty heavy with the jacket and the 4 slots full. Moving it full is not an option if it involves lifting it. If you need to move it in and out of a temp darkroom you may want to investigate getting a cart that it can stay on, assuming you can spare the space.

For a darkroom with limited space, the Nova's are better than sliced bread. And if you print regularly (and don't have to worry about moving it) it's great for speed too, take the floating lids off and you're ready to turn off the lights and start printing. The developer lasts a very long time, if you use an inherently long-lived developer like Ansco 130 or Liquidol, the developer can last weeks.
The Nova is one of my favorite pieces of gear in my darkroom, if it somehow died unrepairable tomorrow, I'd order a replacement asap in spite of the costs.

Sounds promising. Silly question, but with the floating lids in place are chemical fumes allowed to readily escape? Wonderimg what it would mean to the air quality in the bathroom if I were to leave the processor there between printing sessions. Doesn't sound like a great idea but perhaps it's not an issue .

 

[Pieter12]

The Monochrome doesn't have floating lids, just covers made of some lengths of PVC tubing that lay across top of the slots. My darkroom is in the back of my garage and when I go back after a printing session, the most I can detect is the odor of stop bath. It might be more objectionable in a small space like a bathroom, you could try to make a better seal by putting cling wrap over the slots before the covers go on. In the photo, the covers are on the table to the left of the Nova.

 

[tezzasmall]

The Monochrome doesn't have floating lids, just covers made of some lengths of PVC tubing that lay across top of the slots.

The 'floating lids' are just the same as the ones used on the heated units = small lengths of pvc pipe. I sometimes think that the term used is a little confusing until you see them.

As for odour, I have used my heated unit in both a bedroom and a dedicated space and have NEVER noticed any odour when entering the rooms when the unit is full of chemicals. Even in use with the lids taken off, a smell is barely, if at all noticeable.

And as mentioned, if the clips are prone to come out of the FB paper you use, even with two clips or maybe to avoid using them, there are some frames, especially designed for FB paper, to buy and use. I picked mine up off of ebay for a good price, but they don't come along very often: https://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/ProductGrp/Print-Processor-Accessories-Spares

And just reading about them on the Nova site, it is stated that, 'THE NOVA FIBRE PAPERHOLDERS... Available in various sizes - only compatible and useable with the Nova FB Processors - does NOT fit archival washers nor standard Nova print processors.'

Well I totally disagree with this comment, as I use the holders in my STANDARD Nova processor with NO PROBLEM at all. Strange that they say that. So has any one else have any comments about using these holders like myself, in the processor that they are not designed for?

Terry S

 

[logan2z]

The 'floating lids' are just the same as the ones used on the heated units = small lengths of pvc pipe. I sometimes think that the term used is a little confusing until you see them.

As for odour, I have used my heated unit in both a bedroom and a dedicated space and have NEVER noticed any odour when entering the rooms when the unit is full of chemicals. Even in use with the lids taken off, a smell is barely, if at all noticeable.

And as mentioned, if the clips are prone to come out of the FB paper you use, even with two clips or maybe to avoid using them, there are some frames, especially designed for FB paper, to buy and use. I picked mine up off of ebay for a good price, but they don't come along very often: https://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/ProductGrp/Print-Processor-Accessories-Spares

And just reading about them on the Nova site, it is stated that, 'THE NOVA FIBRE PAPERHOLDERS... Available in various sizes - only compatible and useable with the Nova FB Processors - does NOT fit archival washers nor standard Nova print processors.'

Well I totally disagree with this comment, as I use the holders in my STANDARD Nova processor with NO PROBLEM at all. Strange that they say that. So has any one else have any comments about using these holders like myself, in the processor that they are not designed for?

Terry S

Thanks for your reply. I read that about the fiber paper holders as well. Very odd that they would state that in multiple places on their site if it isn't true.

Really tough to get a handle on what will and won't work based on the information on their web site. And given the shipping costs to the US I don't really want to guess and then find out that what I purchased won't work for me. Still waiting for a reply from Nova about some of this...

 

[logan2z]

FWIW, I found an old thread on photrio with this post from Les McLean:

You can do fibre in a big quad but it can be tricky. The fibre holder probably won't be of any use as it needs a slanting slot to work but you could try it, I suspect the paper will just buckle though. I've heard that many folks use two clips to hold 12x16 inch fibre paper and gently move from slot to slot in a quad.

You can probably adapt the fibre holder to work in the original Nova slot processor. I was the photographer who persuaded Nova to make a fibre clip and worked with them for over 2 years in helping to design and test it. The original idea was to make a clip that would work in the upright processor but we did have problems in stopping the paper from slumping downwards and came up with the idea of the angled processor. We did have a clip that worked with fibre paper in the upright processor but it was quite a fiddle to load the paper on to it and it also involved fixing the paper along each side with a clamping device.

I have made 12 x 16 fibre prints in the upright slot processor using one ot the original clips and supporting the paper along the bottom with the tube that lies in the top of the slot as it is transferred. I found this more efficient than using two clips.

So, it certainly sounds as if the fiber holder won't be very effective in a non-fiber processor, although one might be able to fiddle around a bit to get it to work.

I don't make large prints - mostly 8x10, occasionally 11x14, and I always print with white borders and on double-weight paper. So I'm wondering if I could get away with the regular clips in a vertical processor.

 

[spijker]

I have a Nova 16 x 12 quad with heating for 120V 60 Hz. It's the one with regular vertical non-slanted slots. Works very well with 11x14 inch FB paper. So far I've used Adox and Ilford FB paper with the regular clips. The paper is sturdy enough and I have no trouble transferring the wet paper between slots using one clip. The holes from the clip's pins can be camouflaged a bit by rubbing over the paper with your thumbnail while it's still wet after the wash. I print with a white border and the holes don't interfere with the image. Usually they're barely visible. The 4th slot is used for wash aid. After use, I cover the top of the Nova with household food wrap (like saran wrap) to seal the chemicals a bit more than just with the pvc tubes. My darkroom doubles as a laundry room and there's no smell.

I really like the Nova and together with a 5 slot Nova vertical washer, it makes for a very compact wet section of the darkroom. The heating works is convenient in the winter. I turn on the heater when I come home from work and after dinner everything is ready to go.

 

[Pieter12]

I have never had the clips come out of fiber paper, even though I use only one clip for 11x14. The clip marks are barely noticeable and a simple solution is to trim the tiny clip mark off the border of the finished print.

 

[bdial]

I don't make large prints - mostly 8x10, occasionally 11x14, and I always print with white borders and on double-weight paper. So I'm wondering if I could get away with the regular clips in a vertical processor.

Yes you can, they work fine. The only papers that I'd foresee a problem with are possibly single-weight papers which are pretty much unavailable now, I think Slovich is the only maker of single weight paper these days. Art 300 which is a little thinner and lighter than typical double-weight works fine too.

As mentioned, the term "floating lid" is a bit of a misnomer for the tubes that are the slot lids, as they don't float, but they do cover the slot pretty well. There isn't much chemistry, the slots hold about 1.8 Liters, and the surface area is very small so not much smell escapes. If it's objectionable, a citric acid stop will help, as does the cling wrap someone mentioned, I usually use the cling wrap over the tubes when I use it, which isn't often. I have a 16x20 tray I use for washing RC and as a water holding bath otherwise, I often invert it over the Nova as a secondary cover between sessions if I'm not going to be printing for several days.

 

[lantau]

I use my Nova with Kodaks fairly smelly Ektachrome chemicals. The smell is pretty much contained when the lids are on over the week. When I first mixed it all up I was afraid my hosts would complain but it all went away. In operation I can smell it, of course.

With b/w chemicals I have absolutely no smell. But then I never really got any even with trays. Having switched to acetic acid stop, I can smell that one, though. I like acetic acid... and ammonia.

That three slot unit pictured above is really compact. My four slot Clubmate is probably double the foot print. The slots are spaced more with dark acrylic bridges between them. That high contrast design is useful for me when I switch on my very faint colour safelight once my RA4 print is in the stop bath.

I have absolutely no problem with FB paper and the Nova clips. At least Adox MCC is quite stable. You only have to be careful not to bend the paper around the clip too much. That would mark the paper permanently.

And the holes go away when you trim the paper a little, which IMHO is a necessity with RC and FB, anyway. It's also part of the trick to get FB paper flat. As an ongoing darkroom beginner I never had trouble with FB paper drying flat. I'm very happy about that.

Oh, and I upgraded my heating system to the new one. The controls are now in the mains plug (UK type, wall wart style) and its electronics require 50Hz. It's hard to believe they'd use mains frequency to run the microcontrollers main clock, but perhaps it rather depends on the 50Hz in its mechanism to manipulate the mains power sent to the heaters.

 

[logan2z]

Thanks to everyone for providing such useful feedback on the use of the upright Novas with fiber paper. It certainly doesn't sound like doing so will present much of a problem. I'm thinking quite seriously about ordering one.

 

[logan2z]

With b/w chemicals I have absolutely no smell. But then I never really got any even with trays. Having switched to acetic acid stop, I can smell that one, though. I like acetic acid... and ammonia.

The smelliest B&W chemical I use seems to be the Ilford Rapid Fixer. I don't really get much, if any, smell from the Ilford Multigrade Developer or the Ilford Ilfostop stop bath. I've been thinking of trying the Clayton Odorless Fixer but haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[logan2z]

Quick follow-up: I got an email back from Nova. It turns out that they will sell the FB model without the heater electronics to US customers and you can supply your own US-spec heater. However, the price is still pretty high considering no electronics are included. They also confirmed that the "RC" processors should work fine for 8x10 or 11x14 prints but they recommend two clips be used. I think there's an "RC" processor in my near future.

 

[logan2z]

Just bit the bullet and ordered a Nova Monochrome and an ECO print washer. Looking forward to the space/time savings promised by the print processor.

 

[naaldvoerder]

I have used a 16x12 Nova Quad for years and move 16x12 sheets of fiber paper using 1 regular clip only. With a bit of care, that has worked perfectly.

 

[logan2z]

I have used a 16x12 Nova Quad for years and move 16x12 sheets of fiber paper using 1 regular clip only. With a bit of care, that has worked perfectly.

Great to hear. I ordered a second clip just in case but it sounds like I may not need it .

 

[Pieter12]

I ordered a second clip when I bought mine. I figured I'd be saving the shipping cost and the wait time if I needed another one down the line.

 

[naaldvoerder]

I have 4 of those clips. I always use 1 per sheet of paper. I like having 4 because I can use more slots at the same time. I found I was less likely to damage a sheet of 16x12 with 1 clip attached then with 2. I always make sure when attaching the clip both teeth are properly locked into the edge of the sheet. When lithpprinting I attach the clip, when the paper is still in the tray with lith developer, in order to get it into the slot with stop as quickly as possible. I think I have only ever ruined one sheet through using just the 1 clip, while my trash bin is full of paper I managed to ruin in a variety of other ways, including staring at a blank piece of paper for 10 minutes, only to realize I exposed the wrong side of the sheet, or made an exposure through the red filter... Résumé, don't be afraid of handling, and agitating, upto 16x12 sheets of fiber in Nova's with just 1 clip. If I can, absolutely anyone should be able to.

 

[john_s]

................. I found I was less likely to damage a sheet of 16x12 with 1 clip attached then with 2. I always make sure when attaching the clip both teeth are properly locked into the edge of the sheet.......

I have found the opposite. Maybe when the paper is dry it's stiff enough to put into the first slot, but once wet and floppy I found that two clips (and two hands) are necessary to direct the paper smoothly into subsequent slots. Maybe different papers behave differently.

 

[oliver new]

The company that used to manufacture the Nova processors now make something they call the Optima system. The lengths they have gone to in the design of this system in all aspects is really impressive. Uses eheim heaters which I think are USA compatible.

I have the all singing Optima 12 but they also do an Optima X which just holds the verical chemical pods.

Website is www.optimadarkroon.co.uk

 

[perkeleellinen]

Really interesting; I was up at Nova Darkroom just last week and there was no sign of these new designs and no mention of it when I asked them how the analogue side of the business was going. I always thought Nova ,made their own products but it seems it was Novacrylics all along and these are not Nova branded.

 

[pentaxuser]

I asked them how the analogue side of the business was going. I always thought Nova ,made their own products but it seems it was Novacrylics all along and these are not Nova branded.

Steve, I always made the same assumption myself that it was a Nova Darkroom product I wonder if the change of name to The Imaging Warehouse has anything to do with avoiding confusion or even a business problem with what was called Nova Darkroom?

I suspect the change of name probably had more to do with the owner's need to be associated with more than darkroom stuff as was the case when still in Warwick. I get regular e-mails from the Imaging Warehouse but it is exclusively non darkroom products and courses that are offered. No exaggeration, I feel, to say that analogue seems to be the "country cousin " and may now be kept on for "old times sake" and their old time customers

So that leads me onto my question: How is the analogue side of the business going? Last time I was there was about a year ago and while the analogue stuff was there for purchase the guy serving me knew in his words nothing about it i.e. he couldn't give any advice on analogue products although there was someone there normally who manned the analogue side but that person wasn't available that day.

I miss the days of Stuart Band and another person who manned the counter at Warwick whose name I never knew

pentaxuser

 

[perkeleellinen]

So that leads me onto my question: How is the analogue side of the business going? Last time I was there was about a year ago and while the analogue stuff was there for purchase the guy serving me knew in his words nothing about it i.e. he couldn't give any advice on analogue products although there was someone there normally who manned the analogue side but that person wasn't available that day.

I was lucky was I spoke to someone knowledgeable about film; he said sales of darkroom paper had increased a lot in the last year and also chemistry. The big orders were from photo departments at FE colleges. About a year ago they told me they had seriously considered stopping analogue sales altogther to concentrate on inkjet. I think there's recognition that they were wise not to with the recent rise in interest of all things film. I tihink a couple of the old hands are now working down at Secondhand Darkroom Supplies.

I wonder if Nova did indeed build it's own product in the early days before splitting sales and manufacture. They may well be ownership links between the two still.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks Steve. Some reasonably ( I won't put it any stronger than that) hopeful news there in your reply #50 .

pentaxuser