Not Recommended...But I'm Trying It...

ic-racer · Dec 14, 2020

I have recently been exploring the possibility of extending the useful life of Dektol. I can't say I have ever used an entire 3.8Liters of concentrate before it turned almost black. What a waste.

With my last few powder packages of Dektol, I have been measuring out the appropriate amount of powder for working solution and keeping the rest in an air-tight environment. I shake the powder to keep it mixed well before scooping.

I scoop out 40ml of powder and mix that into 1 liter of water to make the working solution for an 11x14 tray.

Just last week I finished off an entire bag of Dektol that way. Perhaps the first time ever, even since the 1970s I was able to use the entire 11 liters without it spoiling near the end.

ic-racer · Dec 14, 2020

Of course, just when you figure out something, they change it. My last bag was the "Old" Dektol which was white powder. Looks like the "New" Dektol powder comes already brown. I just started my first bag of the "New" brown Dektol today. I'll see if it can be split up in its powder form like the "Old" Dektol powder.

cjbecker · Dec 14, 2020

I know your not looking for different options, but give 130 developer a try, I had the stock solution in brown glass bottles and it lasted 6 years, with no sign of aging, the stuff lasts for ever. Also in working solution for paper, 1-1, i just pore back into a container and use the next session. I always end up just mixing up new after a few sessions just because, but i've yet to have one die.

On a side note, it's also great for film at 1-10

MattKing · Dec 14, 2020

ic-racer said:
Of course, just when you figure out something, they change it. My last bag was the "Old" Dektol which was white powder. Looks like the "New" Dektol powder comes already brown. I just started my first bag of the "New" brown Dektol today. I'll see if it can be split up in its powder form like the "Old" Dektol powder.

From the Kodak Alaris website:
Update: KODAK PROFESSIONAL DEKTOL Developer / Packet to make 1 gal (CAT# 516 0270)

Recent batches of DEKTOL with date codes of August 2019 or later have been coming out darker than normal when mixed.
This is due to a non-photo active impurity. This has no impact on product performance.
We are working with our manufacturer to quickly bring the color back to its normal neutral appearance.

MattKing · Dec 14, 2020

Also, I have a couple of friends who successfully store mixed Dektol stock in wine bladders for long periods of time.

ic-racer · Dec 14, 2020

cjbecker said:
I know your not looking for different options, but give 130 developer a try, I had the stock solution in brown glass bottles and it lasted 6 years, with no sign of aging, the stuff lasts for ever. Also in working solution for paper, 1-1, i just pore back into a container and use the next session. I always end up just mixing up new after a few sessions just because, but i've yet to have one die.

On a side note, it's also great for film at 1-10

Actually, I'm always looking for better options for a darkroom that can't be running continuously. I'll might try some 130.

ic-racer · Dec 14, 2020

Today I got some measuring spoons. I had been pouring the Dektol powder in a 50ml graduate to get the 40ml.
I got a whole set of these kitchen spoons but it looks like they make a big jump from 15ml (so called "tablespoon") to 60ml (so called "1/4 Cup").

cjbecker · Dec 14, 2020

I order it from http://stores.photoformulary.com/ and get the 8L stock, mix in a 5 gal bucket and keep in 1/2 gal jugs. It will darken over time when exposed to air but seams to have no effect.

removed account4 · Dec 14, 2020

cjbecker said:
I know your not looking for different options, but give 130 developer a try, I had the stock solution in brown glass bottles and it lasted 6 years, with no sign of aging, the stuff lasts for ever. Also in working solution for paper, 1-1, i just pore back into a container and use the next session. I always end up just mixing up new after a few sessions just because, but i've yet to have one die.

On a side note, it's also great for film at 1-10

+1 !

Wayne · Dec 14, 2020

There's no way to be sure your powder is evenly mixed, so its a risky method. Probably doesn't matter if you are willing to recalibrate with each batch, if necessary.

Keith Pitman · Dec 14, 2020

A friend gave me some old Dektol in “makes 5 gallons stock solution” packages. It starts out brown. I don’t know how old this stuff is, but I’ve known Terry for around 12 years and he has been a (professional) digital photographer all that time, forsaking film photography completely. I’ve only used one of the five gallon packages he gave me. It works fine and keeps well. I have to make some exhibition prints soon and will probably use some fresh(er) Dektol. Nevertheless, the point is that I would not obsess about old Dektol or aging stock solution of Dektol (within reason). Just use it until you see it doesn’t work. Then discard it.

Keith Pitman · Dec 14, 2020

I should add that I keep the stock solution in a tank with a floating lid, e.g., air-tight, at least theoretically.

Keith Pitman · Dec 14, 2020

PPS: One of the packages has a code 6609T3 stamped on the box. Don’t think 66 is a year code (Terry is not that old). Anyone able to translate this code?

ic-racer · Dec 14, 2020

Wayne said:
There's no way to be sure your powder is evenly mixed, so its a risky method. Probably doesn't matter if you are willing to recalibrate with each batch, if necessary.

I can't say I have ever done a test print then processed the final print in fresh developer, so if there were a difference from batch to batch, I'd not know it. Though, people with other workflow might.
But this is somewhat of an experiment, to see what might happen. I'm just starting my second bag of Dektol today.

Maybe someone who has tried this in the past and had inconsistent results might chime in and explain the issues encountered.

ic-racer · Dec 14, 2020

michael_r said:
Cool.
One alternative you might want to try for intermittent printing is Liquidol (from Formulary). Ron (PE) had a hand in it as you probably know. It was designed to essentially replicate Dektol - but with a very long shelf life, capacity and tray life (not that I've ever had a problem with Dektol capacity or tray life. Easy mixing 1:9 from concentrate.

I have never used that but it sounds promising also.

Lachlan Young · Dec 14, 2020

Two other options to explore are Adox's Adotol Konstant and Foma's Fomatol PW - both are sold in packages to make 1L of working solution.

jvo · Dec 14, 2020

might want to check out liquidol from ron mowrey

"Liquidol has been carefully designed to replicate the appearance of prints developed in industry-standard Kodak Dektol, yet to provide enhanced shadow separation.", check out photography formulary

Wayne · Dec 14, 2020

ic-racer said:
I can't say I have ever done a test print then processed the final print in fresh developer, so if there were a difference from batch to batch, I'd not know it. Though, people with other workflow might.
But this is somewhat of an experiment, to see what might happen. I'm just starting my second bag of Dektol today.

Maybe someone who has tried this in the past and had inconsistent results might chime in and explain the issues encountered.

I bought a bag of Dektol last week and returned it today. It would have cost me $13 for a gallon, but I realized I had everything I need to mix its equivalent, D-72. You might consider that and if you use a lot you'll save a lot, since you are willing to work with powdered chems anyway.

MattKing · Dec 14, 2020

It would be nice if it was easier to get Liquidol shipped to Canada at reasonable cost.
The biggest potential downside to inconsistent results arising from splitting up powder print developers is that for some papers, it will/may affect image tone.
Which only matters if you intend to display prints side by side, and/or to tone them to a particular target.

takilmaboxer · Dec 14, 2020

After struggling with allergic skin reactions to Dektol, I tried LPD. Never looked back. It is versatile and lasts forever. The Rodinol of paper developers.

albada · Dec 14, 2020

takilmaboxer said:
After struggling with allergic skin reactions to Dektol, I tried LPD. Never looked back. It is versatile and lasts forever. The Rodinol of paper developers.

I wear nitrile gloves when working with darkroom chemicals. No more rashes.
Mark Overton

albada · Dec 14, 2020

michael_r said:
Cool.
One alternative you might want to try for intermittent printing is Liquidol (from Formulary). Ron (PE) had a hand in it as you probably know. It was designed to essentially replicate Dektol - but with a very long shelf life, capacity and tray life (not that I've ever had a problem with Dektol capacity or tray life. Easy mixing 1:9 from concentrate.

I'm finding that Liquidol is good for three multi-hour sessions, when stored in a bottle and refrigerated between sessions. Two sessions if you're cautious.
It's still fine when it becomes light yellow, but any darker means you won't hit D-max.

Also, the concentrate stores fine in the refrigerator (with no precipitation). It will last longer, but I don't know how long.
Mark Overton

mshchem · Dec 14, 2020

I have used Bromophen for decades, LPD is similar. Stuff keeps forever. In fact the last batch I made, I bought from B&H in 2004. It was so old, it had been made in England

LPD is a great developer. But I have found excellent keeping of the stock solution made and stored in full bottles.

I have a 40 year old brochure on LPD somewhere in my darkroom, they were using a spoon to make smaller quantities.

I say have at it. When Dektol is bagged it's been blended. By packaging it, it's just a bigger spoon

MattKing · Dec 15, 2020

mshchem said:
When Dektol is bagged it's been blended.

Not necessarily. For some chemicals, the constituent components are actually put into the bags separately.
And powders settle and separate over time.

mshchem · Dec 15, 2020

I worked in the animal health industry. We used Calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, all manner of minerals, vitamins etc. Uniform sized particles are the key. We had big Marion mixers that blended 40,000 lb batches. All of this went into a hopper which filled 50 lb bags.
The VP of quality assurance and process development always said if the materials aren't the right size, it's like trying to blend BBs and bowling balls. We did a lot of sieve analysis with the big stacks of Tyler screens.

I would be shocked to find any ordinary photo powders that aren't handled in the same fashion.

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